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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - bushing to adjust camber

All, I just returned from a local tech session where new bushings were installed in a "B" to reduce the positive camber. It uses bushings with offset holes to increase or decrease camber, depending on which way they are installed. See Moss #282-308. It is fairly straight forward and thought it was something I would do so my tires wouldn't look so funny leaning out at the top! Might make it handle a little better, too.

However, for the midget, the instructions say to put the bushing on the lower, inner A-arm, whereas all the other cars get them at the top of the kingpin. So, my question is, why can't they go at the upper trunnion where the shock mounts on the Midget, too? Would be a lot easier. Thanks, and any comments from anyone who has done this would be appreciated.

One other question - what keeps the bushings from rotating? Is it just friction?

Jack
Jack Orkin

Jack,
There exist offset bushings for the upper trunnion. I have used the ones supplied by Rivergate (NLA). It does not matter how much you try to tighten them in place, they WILL rotate. The nature of the beast is that they will always rotate to the worst possible setting under any given circumstance, too. The inner wishbone pivots might be better that way. If I were doing it, I would either use a Frontline suspension kit to give me the desired negative camber or else use the special upper trunnions sold by Bugeye Bar in Oz or Speedwell that build the camber change into the actual upper trunnion and use whatever bushings you prefer.
David "how bad is your lean?" Lieb
David Lieb

I haven't found my car's brass neg camber bushes moved at all. I have heard the wishbone ones will.

Note that while the Frontline kit moves the camber from positive to negative this is NOT the same as guaranteing your car will have negative camber. If your car is lowered you can still end up with zero or slight positive camber even with a Frontline kit. This is a fact and checked on my car with more than one camber gauge. I now have Peter May's negative camber trunnions with a Frontline kit and the camber is now negative though I've not measured it yet.
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

"If your car is lowered you can still end up with zero or slight positive camber"
Daniel, I would certainly not argue with your technical expertise. Maybe your comment relates to lowered Frontline-fitted cars.
I do know that when I lowered my standard suspensioned car using spacers between the spring pan and lower wishbone, It induced a distinct negative camber. But thinking about it, there may have been some negative camber before it was lowered anyway.

Guy
Guy Weller

Jack,

A little trick i stumbled onto by pure accident, and one others seem to employ.

get 12 flat washers (6 per side) and place 3 flat washers between the the bottom of the shock and the tower that the shock screws into....on both of the bolts...take it for a ride and remove or add More washers till you get the ride you want...works a Gem, Im only using 2 flat washers per bolt....BTW I only put the washers on the front 2 bolts NOT (NONE)on the one further back on the shock

Someone else can fill you in on the detais of how and why this works...back to work.

Prop
Prop

Prop,
That might change the Castor angle, but I don't think it would alter the camber.
I also would consider that a dangerous modification. The base of the shock body is machined flat to sit squarely on the flat upper surface of the suspension tower. Adding washers would lift the front edge, giving a less secure platform and also meaning that the fine threaded mounting bolts would be stressed where they screw into the fixed threads.Not good on a "critical" component.

Others may be happy with that, but I wouldn't risk it. And I am not known for being an unduely risk-averse person!
Guy Weller

Don't see how that would change the Caster angle Guy, not the camber for that matter nor anything else. However what it may do is kill somebody as you rightly point out!

Is it only me?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

I've got a pair of Peter May Engineering negative camber trunnions and lowered front springs on a 1500 and they're all work fine to giove negative chamber.

Whilst not advocating Prop's dodgy washers trick, back in the day we used to put a flat steel plate under the shock absorber to give a bit of negative camber - can't recall how thick though!
l snowdon

I S,

Yes if the whole shock absorber is lifted higher then the top trunion will be moved inboard. That is because the shock mounting plate is at an angle so a thick plate under the shock would cause negative camber.
Thinking that through a little more then if you were to tilt the shocker from the back then that could cause the top trunion to be moved slightly outboard and cause positive camber wouldn't it?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Jack, Spridgetmania has the adjustable upper trunion bushings in poly. I've heard that although raising the shock will increase negative camber it also affects the roll center so I'd vote for the trunion bushings. http://www.spridgetmania.com/web/Item/88G274%2FP%2FADJ/InvDetail.cfm
Bill Young

Robert,
Agreed!
I read Prop's version as packing the front edge of the shock which would have the effect of altering the angle of the arc that the outer end of the lever arm moves through. Instead of moving through its normal plane - i.e the normal castor angle imposed by the renowned bend in the chassis rails - it would move in a plane further obliquely to the vertical. I think.

Guy
Guy Weller

Thanks for all the comments. While they may be fine, I can't get over the idea that only friction keeps the offset bushing from rotating. The offset trunnion, while more expensive than the bushings, seems a very elegant and simple alternative and I may give that a try.

Jack
Jack Orkin

Jack, I had one (don't ask!) of the Moss offset bushes on one side of my car. I needed it to have the full ammount of negative camber so positioned the bushes and then used araldite to glue them in place. (I think I glued it and then bolted it up tight till set and then set it up properly) I also drilled and tapped the the top of the trunnion to accept a grease nipple to keep it well lubed. After a couple of years I stripped and checked it and all was fine. The bushes were nylatron by the way, not the brass ones.

I also have the Peter May ones on my hillclimb car and after 5 hard years they are showing no signs of wear.

John
John Payne

well

All I know is I like the handling better with flat washers then without, I certianly never planned it that way, I just did it to elvate dirt and sludge build up in that area...But I guess its a good thing I got the Frontline kit to install. But it was on these BBS boards that others chimed in and gave praise to the flat washer trick, and apperantly was a popular trick back in the dAY.

Prop..After 7 years, I guess I should check my flat washers...Prop
Prop

Hi Prop,
I have just re-read your first message on this. I think I may have misunderstood which 2 bolts you meant by the "front ones" I thought you meant the two towards the front of the car. Washers under these would twist the shock body over, altering the spindle so that it was no longer parallel with the bottom wishbone pivots, and adding odd stresses to the whole system. Having read again I think perhaps you were meaning putting washers under the two outer bolts.

Adding washers here would raise the spindle of the shock, but because of the angle of the plate it bolts down to, it would also move inwards a little, adding negative camber. But the inwards movement would only be slight, probably about 1/3rd of the thickness of washers added.

Guy
Guy Weller

Guy,

That is correct, But Im to blame, I didnt explain what I was doing vary well...but you got my point across, thank you.

Prop
Prop

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2009 and 18/11/2009

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