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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Changing the starter motor for the first time.

Im about to change the starter motor on my 1972 midget for the first time. The top bolt looks easy enough but does anyone have any tips for the bottom one? It looks like a right pain to get to.

Thanks

Rob
Rob Storer

Wedge a spanner onto the top nut against the engine. Then undo the bottom one - I do it from underneath, as opposed to the engine bay. You will probably have to pull the distributor out as well - it will certainly make life easier. Don't forget to put tippex marks across where it is bolted, as well as where it turns, so you don't lose your timing setting. That bottom nut on the starter is a real pain, but don't be tempted to just bolt the starter up again using the top nut only - I've tried that - there is a fair bit of torque from a starter motor, which results in a fair bit of movement, even though you think you have done up the top nut tightly.
Geoff Mears (1970 Midget)

Yes; I get at both bolts from the front/top with suitable size extension bars; find a spanner to lock up the rears. one of those jobs where quiet patience is rewarded.

A
Anthony Cutler

Thanks guys, I thoght it would be awkward. I'll make sure I'm in the right frame of mind before I start....
Rob Storer

Hi Rob,
I go from underneath with two sockets plus extensions,but it is a bxxxxxd,sometimes a second pair of hands helps.
Steve
steve cowling

i do the bottom bolt from underneath. I have never had to pull the distributor to do it, i find a box ended wrench on one side and a socket on the other (can't remember if the front or the back had the better room)is the way to go. It's only really difficult the first time. After your second or third time, you can change a starter in 5 minutes or less. I am a bit out of practice though, since i switched to a gear reduction starter. :)

C
Chris Edwards

Chris, I bet you don't have to share the space with a steering column though, do you?

Rob the starter can... just... be removed without taking out the dizzy but for the time it takes you may as well mark it's position and refit later.

I usually do

The starter CAN drop down through the chassis cutout but is hard work and when it comes to refitting it, you would wish you'd taken out the dizzy, which will also open your options when finding room for a long extension and socket

I go

ring spanner behind the bellhousing socket and extension to the front

(and although not relevant for you, when I fitted my 5 speed and its alloy bell housing I tapped the bell housing to take a couple of metric bolts, never need to get a spanner behind it now)
bill sdgpm

I don't know how you Brits put up with that RHD on a Spridget ;-)
A right pain when you need to play with the dissy or starter, ain't it? Somehow it seems nicely out of the way on the other side of the engine to me...
David "starter changing is easy over here" Lieb
David Lieb

Thanks chaps! I've got to do this job in the next week or two as well. The wag who had my car before "forgot" to put in the bottom bolt with the result that unbeknownst to me the torque gradully loosened the top one to be followed by the mounting flange breaking at the top bolt. I've been tooling around for the last year or two with a jerry repair but I've got a new starter sitting waiting to go in and now you're putting me off!
Matt 1275 Bucks

<== Completely forgot the brits have a steering column!

Matt, I have had that exact same break on a starter myself. Fortunately I was able to rig it with a C-clamp to get home.
Chris Edwards

Matt

don't be put off

just take the advice and it'll be done in half an hour

bill sdgpm

On the LHD 1500 engine Midgets, it helps if you take off the fuel pump too along with some of the emissions hose near the distributor.

Don't be put off, Matt, you'll get it done and don't grease or lube the Bendix drive shaft on the starter. It will attract and hold dust/dirt and eventually you'll have to pull the starter again to clean everything up.
Clive Reddin

Take out the distributor and just put a ring spanner on the nut from inside and take a ratchet with an extension and unscrew the bolt.
First take of the electrical feed.
Alex G Matla

Thanks for the encouragement gents. I will proceed forthwith! (well maybe in a few weeks when the garage floor isnae so cold!)
I'm now also re-motivated to do my hif44 conversion that I was planning last year as Tom C. has effectively confirmed in the other thread my ebay hi-flow 4001 manifold should fit without modification. I also managed to confirm the flange angle at just under 10 degrees thanks to the wonders of the ipod touch! May not be totally accurate but beats messing around with steel rules, spirit levels and protractors!
Matt 1275 Bucks

re Bill's comment

"when I fitted my 5 speed and its alloy bell housing I tapped the bell housing to take a couple of metric bolts, never need to get a spanner behind it now"

Is there enough "meat" around the mounting hole in the standard bell housing to be similarly tapped out (imperial as I prefer not to have to carry both imperial & metric tools)? The holes in the starter would then of course require enlargement for the new bolts. If there is enough insufficent "meat" around the starter hole, then maybe a helicoil thread insert or similar could be fitted into the bellhousing to eliminate the need for enlarging the holes in the starter.

If the proposal is achievable and or sensible, can it done with the bellhousing in the car?

Just some thoughts for the future,

Doug
Doug Plumb

My guess is that starting the thread on a bolt in that position would be a good deal harder than pushing the bolt through the hole - taking the weight of the starter motor - and then just spinning a nut on the end.

But then I have never found fitting the starter motor to be particularly awkward anyway. I think a lot of these so called difficult jobs are down to having the right spanner, extension or home-made special device. In the case of the starter I use a socket with an extension just long enough to reach past the end of the starter body. One that is too long makes using a ratchet tricky in the confined space. Once off, the starter removes easily through the top, but then I have an alternator, not a dynamo so there is a bit more space.
Guy Weller

Doug,

Perhaps just a metal strap welded from one nut to the other to prevent rotation and provide a captive feature?

In fact that's a great idea, I could make them and sell them on eBay for £9.99, earn loads of money, afford to go racing, gain mucho respecto in the MG Car Club, have all my children marry great people in the club, spend my latter years doing fun car stuff, tours of the Alps and Colorado.. wow these antibiotics are kicking in!

But also a practical question, do we concur Monsieur Reddin from Canada's comments on not lubricating the bendix? Makes sence to me, but I need 'full forum buy-in' before I'm willing to change the practice of a life time!

James - ill at home in Essex, UK.

PS - Matt get it done now, don't wait for better weather (seriously August is the only month when lying on a garage floor is comfortable). The theruputic pleasure from getting a job done is not to be under rated. God's speed friend, your car awaits you!
J E G Eastwood 1

quite right Guy - too many people have a boxfull of 1/2" drive ratchets, extensions and sockets, these I have learnt through bitter experience are mostly more trouble than worth, being big and clumsy in the close confines of a Spridget. All my 1st touch tools are 3/8" drive and are a joy to use. The same price in the smaller size provides better quality too. Also I've hardly stripped a thread since...
David Smith

Yes, I use 3/8 sockets - and 1/4 ones as well. There is very little on a Spridget that warrants use of 1/2" drive, they are for tractors and Triumphs - TR3s and TR4s at least!
Guy Weller

I use 1/2" for use with my 1/2" drive torque wrench, otherwise its zilch for the 1/2"

3/8" rules OK and I also have a just long enough extension bar, probably about 10 inches, works wonderfully on the starter bolts.

Halfords Professionals are good kit as are the Taskmaster from Partco/Unipart.

Mine feel better to hand than Snap-ons, although Snap Ons are fine too.

I dont have an A-series or 1500 box to try to thread up but I have no problems with fitting the top "screw" first whilst taking the weight and then the bottom one into the tapped hole. I'm sure a helicoil would work if you want to stay Imperial.

17mm is the size bolt head, I suspect thats about an 8x1.5mm thread, but I cannot confirm it... no data available

re: doing the "tapping" in the car

I had trouble early on with the nuts and bolts on mine so to thread it I actually cut slices out of a hard metric bolt to allow it to start threadcutting in situ

I dont advise doing it that way it was hard to keep it lined up cutting sideways
bill sdgpm

Managed to change it today, 2 sockets with extension bars, one on the front the other on the back. Trickiest bit was geting the bottom nut and bolt back on.

Thanks for all the advice.
Rob Storer

Good Job!

Have a few brews!
Dave Rhine ('78 1500)

Bill, spanner size 17 is M10 x 1,5. M8 is spanner 13, a little bigger then 1/2" af, cheap or worn imperial spanner will fit.
Alex G Matla

thanks Alex

:)


I was down in the garage yesterday to find that out

Then forgot why I went down there

:(

never did get to check, busy working on my newer "late style" pedal box and cylinders

cheers
bill sdgpm

Ha ha, must be age, I sometimes forget why I go to the MGworkshop too. Usually arrive, get some coffee, look at the ongoing projects, talk some about them and then... ehr...
Alex G Matla

I used a ten year old grandchild to hold a ring spanner (wrench) on the bottom nut, with the ring spanner (wrench) braced against the edge of the access hole in the tunnel. The grand child could fit quite easily into the footwell, but did'n't have to resist the torque when the bolt was turned using a socket and extension inside the engine bay.
AG Martin

Yep, grandkids are great, I use an 11 year old! Hands fit right in there where mine won't.

After some in depth technical training: righty - tighty / lefty - loosey, the kid's been invaluable!

Dave
Dave Rhine ('78 1500)

This thread was discussed between 10/02/2010 and 20/02/2010

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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