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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - DIY Mumford link

I've been doing some research on the web for a mumford link / RTL, to try & reduce back end steer on my sprite.
I've fabrictaed a mock up out of wood from one of the American sites, but the handbrake arms seem rather close to me. Has any one done there own Mumford link & did they have to relocate the hand brake arms?
Also what is the best RC height to aim for as this will affect where i mount the linkage & outer rod arm height on the axle.
Any help welcome at this stage.
Thanks
Brad
B Richards

Brad

I use a FL RTL / Mumford. The main arms are very close to the handbrake rods, as you say. I think FL might recommend using a cable across the back axle - is this in fact the later configuration?

AIUI you should aim for a RC just below the diff sump.

A
Anthony

Brad,

If you're still going to use the standard springs, rather than coil overs, then the RC wants to be kept close to that given by the standard springs otherwise you get contention between the two locating mechanisms and an effective stiffening in roll, not so evident in single wheel bump.
David Billington

I had the pleasure of working along side Micheal Mumford some years ago and Wow... what a Guy! We developed a Mumford Link for an Anglia that I was involved with at the time and had to go into great detailed modifications to make it work correctly.

The 'Mumford Link' was designed to work with a 'coil over' suspension set up, (initially on a Mallock) it can NEVER work correctly with a leaf sprung axle. Sit down and draw it out, work out how it works and where the loadings are sent when cornering. The axle is designed to move sidewards with the Mumford, with leaf springs the set up is in conflict.

We managed it with the Anglia and if anyone wants to know all the details, find me one day when I have some time, buy me a pint or two and I'll explain.....

Mark.
Mark Boldry

Ummm, so it won't work as designed, but will it work better than nothing at all?

Brad
B Richards

Brad

Much better than nothing!

if the leaf springs provided a geometry, there'd be no need for anti-tramp bars, Panhard rod and so on...

A
Anthony

Brad,

What about adding the leaf springs into your wooden mockup and seeing if you can find a set-up that allows the 2 systems to co-exist happily.
David Billington

I must say that with the torque of the Kseries and a/t bar with Panhard, you could feel the back end moving around when accelerating hard over undulations... a very strange and uncomfotable experience that I don't have with the FL RTL... (I would love to have had a camera filming it!)

A
Anthony

Anthony,

What you probably felt was the side to side movement due to the assymetric nature of a Panhard rod. A Watts link and AFAIK a Mumford don't suffer from that problem. Do you still use AT bars with the RTL/Mumford.
David Billington

Well i'm putting out a fair bit with an Avonbar 1380, 285 cam, modified head, Titans, 5speed box, DHLA45 etc...
I already have FL shockers all round, anti tramp bars, & FL camber uprights at the front. Its just that the rear end gets a bit active!
So the Mumford link still looks the best option, its a pity its so expensive from FL.

Brad
B Richards

David

I use one a/t bar on the driver's side... (it felt like the back end structure was coming apart... very un-nerving!)

A
Anthony

Does that mean anti tramp bars are out with a mumford link?
B Richards

My car 'puts out a fair bit' and was loose to the point of dangerous. I was once registering 115mph on the Keighley by pass, I was catching up to the vehicle in front so lifted my foot off the gas. 21 years in the fire service never had me in a scarier place! My car has frontline all round and poly bushes. I tightened the rear spring shackles tighter than tight, fitted a panhard rod and anti tramp bars, and have not had a worry with handling since.
Except when I raised it to standard height and took it on a track. The rear shocks (Gaz) were made for the lowered stance and ran out of travel. It was hilarious. 3rd gear wheelspin out of bends, and more spins than a politician. It is low again now!
Shawn

I can't go lower than standard, the roads are dire here & as it is i'm scrapping the exhaust more than i care for, especially as the council & some supermarkets with there speed bumps have made certain roads a no go area for me.

cheers
Brad
B Richards

Brad,

No reason not to use AT bars with a Mumford as far as I can see because the the Mumford link serves to control lateral axle movement, the AT bars help prevent wind-up of the leaf springs. The two mechanisms operate at 90 degrees to each other so should not interfere with each other.
David Billington

Hi Brad

This might be a case of mistaken identity but is your sprite known as bes? Be good to get in touch if it is.

shaun @ richeswebdotcodotuk
S Riches

So wait a minute. Your saying that the Mumford link does NOT control side to side movement of the axle? Then if that is the case I should just go with a Watts link which IS designed to control the side to side location.

Then exactly WHAT is a Mumford link supposed to DO? With 6 axes of rotation which one is it supposed to control? I am now confused as to it's purpose.
mgv6

MGV6,

Where in the thread did anyone state that a Mumford link didn't control side to side axle movement.
David Billington

Hi Sahun,
bit surprised to see you on this site, i thought you were all fuel injection, VTEC & 9K Rpm gearchanges now adays.
But you must have lost a race too many on the back roads to a modified sprite i guess.

brad_r@fastmaildotfm
B Richards

Gents while this thread is still current, which rose joints can anyone recommend? I was looking at 12mm ones (bit cheaper than 1/2" Unf), are these large enough?

cheers
Brad
B Richards

This thread was discussed between 05/05/2008 and 10/05/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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