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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Exhaust problems.

As a new owner of a 59 frogeye I've been playing with the rear suspension and exhaust.
Just finished fitting the mounting bracket for a 2nd hand panhard rod, bought some mini shocks to replace those already fitted and also a nice shiny new stainless exhaust - which dosen't fit!!!!
Does anybody know of somebody near Chelmsford in Essex who is capable of fabricating an S bend in 1.5" tube so that I can fit the blasted exhaust?

Also I need a bracket fabricated to connect the rod to the axle, any ideas? The panhard rod is virtually identical to the frontline kit but unfortunately there was no axle bracket included.

The frogeye has been modified with a 1330 A+ engine, stage 2 head, 276 cam, disc brakes and 5 speed frontline conversion, it goes well but the brakes aren't too hot due to the wrong master cylinder which I will be changing and I have ordered the front suspension upgrade from frontline. Hopefully after that lot it should go, stop and handle equally well.

Graham
Graham Prosser

Graham,

Does the car already have mini shocks fitted and you are replacing them or are you planning on fitting mini shocks in place of levers. I have done something similar years ago but think the mini shock may be restrictive travelwise as the frogeye damper pickup on the axle is higher than that one later semi elliptic cars so reducing the available space and being welded to the axle is not as easy to move/invert as the later damper plate.

Regarding braking I never had a problem locking the disc brakes I fitted with the frogeye 7/8" cylinder but I did have a fibreglass bonnet fitted so a lighter front end.

Don't know about the panhard as I made a Watts linkage to suit my car. It would help to know where the end of the panhard rod ended up in relation to the axle components if something has to be made otherwise approach the usual suspects FL, Peter May etc about fitting a panhard to a 1/4 elliptic axle and whether the do the missing bit.
David Billington

Thanks for the response David, yes the car already has mini shocks fitted, but they are rear shocks and not the normally fitted front ones. The wheel arch has been strengthened with brackets and the shocks bolt up through there and connect to the original mount on the axle. I have checked the travel in the shocks and there is plenty, the axle should hit the bump stops before the shocks are fully compressed and they are not at the end of their stroke when the axle is supended from the check straps.
The car has been running on them since a rebuild in 1999 and it is one of the few non standard things that the previous owner did properly!

The brakes don't lock up, you just need the strength of a Gorilla to operate them :( For some reason he decided to fit a dual circuit, mini master cylinder and a servo (operating on the front only) rather than get a proper master from a later spridget. The pedal "box" is from a mini or something similar and is an abortion of a thing, so I have got a later pedal box and will plumb that in. The area where the pedals go has been cut about already so the minor cut and shut I'll have to do to fit a MK 4 box won't worry me cos he's already butchered it. Hopefully that will restore the correct balance and feel to the system.
Graham Prosser

Graham,

The mods for the rear shocks sound similar to ones I did about 1987 in that they extend upwards slightly into the parcel shelf area but I did replace the standard pick-ups with longer ones to extend the travel and in my case the dampers take the place of the check straps which they are capable of doing. If all OK then that sounds a competent mod.

Can't comment on the mini brake mods as I have no knowledge of those system components.
David Billington

The 'S' bend is essential so achieve the right positioning of the box; I'm amazed to see 'straight only' pipes being sold.

I designed my Panhard around the RC-40 box that was fitted; the box was already mounted as far back as possible, so this was relatively easy.

You need to fabricate an 'ear' on the damper mount to take the Panhard. I'll log in and post a pic.

A
Anthony

Pic of Panhard mount; you can see the ex 's' bend in the background.

A


Anthony Cutler

http://www.spritespot.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=toomanyspridgets&id=panhardc

http://www.spritespot.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=toomanyspridgets&id=panharda

More Panhardery in action
rob multi-sheds thomas

Thanks for the pics Anthony, it's not quite the same as mine would be as I've quarter elliptic springs, but it's good enough to give me some ideas. As for the exhaust it's a real pain in the butt and is wasting hours of my time!!!So I need a fabricator, anybody pleeeease?
Graham Prosser

Graham,

Where does the panhard rod sit in relation to the other axle components. Anthony's pic shows a fairly standard type of mod for mounting a panhard to the later cars but the 1/4 elliptic damper mount is not as strong laterally in comparison to the later, whereas the axle turrets on the 1/4 elliptic axle are strong enough to take the panhard loadings.
David Billington

Graham
Re your exhaust. I have a friend who has just sorted out his workshop to manufacture and fit bespoke stainless steel exhausts. If you get stuck and are prepared to travel then a visit up here would pay you great dividends. In fact to have a bespoke exhaust made specifically for your car is probably cheaper than buying a complete system to fit yourself.
I am aware that this is out of your control but if you need a good fettling job on your existing then give us a call.
We are near Sc*nthorpe, need to do that spelling otherwise it accuses me of foul language. :-)
Bob England

David, it is an Aldon Automotive rod, which looks to be identical to the Frontview, Peter May, et al versions, it was just missing the axle mount.
It sits to the front, nearside of the tank just above the centre of the axle
I think I will fabricate a mount similar to Anthony's but mounted on the spring/radius arm mount (axle turret?). Hopefully that will sort it out even though I still have a problem with the exhaust!

Bob, I think Sc*nthorpe is a wee bit too far to travel, surely there must be a place somewhere in Essex?
Graham Prosser

Graham - have you tried googling 'stainless exhaust essex'? There's a firm in Basildon that seems to do it, but they might be carriage trade rather than cart!

Worth a call, though.
Nick

Haywood and Scott are rather good.....Give them a call and ask to speak to Ian.
Toby Anscombe

Thanks for that guys, I've just looked them up & I'll give them a call on Monday.

I've also discovered that stainless can be brazed, it's not too easy but I have managed to fabricate an S bend, it's just a case now of going over the joints and making sure that they are good.

At least that will get me on to another part of the vehicle as I have been stalled on the exhaust for a week!
Graham Prosser

Graham,

If the rod is above the centre line of the axle I think you may have to modify something. Ideally the panhard pick-up on the axle will be near the spring or you are going to introduce some undesirable handling characteristics such as roll over steer. Seen that nicely on a frogeye replica based on a mk2 sprite with 1/4 elliptic suspension where the owner had fitted a panhard of his own design from just below the bump stop to the opposite boot floor corner, neat but caused a serious conflict between panhard and springs. I didn't drive it but as a passenger I could feel the very odd handling and oversteer which apparently hadn't been there before the fitment. Maybe your back end is riding higher than it should be so causing the higher placement.

David Billington

Yep braising is my method of working with Stainless steel at the moment Graham, although you do need to get the pipe red hot to get a good flow. You can also easily weld Stainless with normal mig, although that will not be as good as with SS wire or a tig.
Bob (robert) Midget Turbo

Graham,

For the best chance of brazing stainless well you need a different flux to that used for steel. It is more active and better able to cope with the tenacious chromium oxides that impart the stainless properties, not saying you can't do it with normal brazing flux it just doesn't work as well. Any good welding supplier should have or be able to get it. The stuff I have for the purpose is called Sifbronze tool tip & stainless steel brazing flux , as the name implies it can also be used for brazed carbide tips as well. Similar fluxes are available for silver soldering stainless but work at a lower temperature.
David Billington

David, when I said just above the centre line I meant about half an inch, hopefully that won't be too much?

Don't forget that there is no weight in the car either, no driver and no spare wheel plus the back end is higher as the axle is on stands. Hopefully the back will be riding a little high on the springs, so when there is some weight applied and the car is on the ground it should settle down and line the rod up properly (I hope!).

I'll have a good look at it tomorrow and get a friend to sit in the car so I can check the position.

Robert, yes I noticed the heat required, it's costing me a fortune in gas, but although I'm using standard flux if I get it hot enough it flows quite nicely :)
Graham Prosser

Graham,

Check it out and think about it, I would expect the spare tyre to make little difference to the ride height as it is usually light and evenly distributed between both springs, the driver varies more and offset to the ofside in the UK.
David Billington

Here it is, it's not pretty but it's all my own!
Means I can now progress with the rest of the work.


Graham Prosser

David:
The next two pics are of the rod mounting. The first shows the level of the mount compared to the centre line of the axle, as I said it's about half an inch above the weld along the centre line. That is to the top of the rod & the rod is around half inch thick so it actually centres around a quarter inch above the line.
What do you think, should that be OK?


Graham Prosser

Pic 2 of the rod, as you may be able to see the axle end is not connected. I need some idea of the position needed for the end mount.
Should the mount be close to the axle, causing the rod to be angled in a similar way to the pic?
Or should I fabricate a mount that positions the rod as near as possible to running parallel to the axle across the vehicle.
Graham


Graham Prosser

This thread was discussed between 06/06/2008 and 08/06/2008

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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