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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Facet Fuel Pump Sticking

Hi All,

I've had a Facet (silver top I think) fuel pump fitted to my 72 midget for about 20 years with no problems.

Last week I filled up with fuel, from a non main dealer filling station and within 20 miles the car stopped as if i was out of fuel.

After a quick investigation I realised the pump wasn't ticking. As those of you with Facet pumps know they will tick continuously whether the float bowls are full or not. A well aimed couple of taps with a spanner and it started pumping again.

over the course of the next 100 miles to get me home I needed to hit the pump on about 6 different occasions to restart it.

Now I know the points on the original SU pumps can stick as I had this happen several times on my MGBGT but don't know if the same thing happens on the Facets. I haven't spent up the pump to look at the internal filter to see if it's blocked but was wondering if any of you had had similar symptoms on this type of pump.

I don't have a fuel filter in line before the pump which, from research today, I maybe should have - although it's been fine for the last 20 years........

Thanks in advance,

Dave
Dave Thrussell

I might be wrong but I think the external filter is more for the square type.

It sounds like possibly the points might stick by your case if it isn't your internal filter, on looking it up it seems modern ones are solid state.

I've not had one for about 15 years so can't say about how often they might stick when they're older. I had mine to replace the very noisy square type.

If you, or anyone else, still have the original instructions they might include servicing(?).
Nigel Atkins

Dave,
I'm not sure if the photo is correct for the pump you have but it might help.

It looks like you should be able to remove the internal filter with the pump still fitted in situ, subject to having a couple of inches spare on that side, so checking the filter seems the obvious first step and at the extreme replace the pump with a new one.


Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel,

I agree - opening it up and having a look in situ seems to be the obvious first step. Although I'll probably go down the route of replacing it anyway as I'm not sure how much I'd trust it in the future once it's started playing up. At least if I see the filter is clear then I'll be happier about replacing it like for like and know that it's not a load of crap from the last fill up causing the problems.

From the photo I've just taken under the wheel arch it looks like there's plenty of space to get the filter out and it will give me a chance to move the brake hose out of the way as well.

Cheers,
Dave



Dave Thrussell

Dave,
yeap there looks to be lots of room there, I wonder what the spanner size is, you won't even get your hands (too) dirty.

I'm with you I don't like an unreliable car especially one that breaks down or even worse won't start.

One of the first things I changed on my Midget when I got it was the fuel pump as I'd been let down with one before. I got a Quinton Hazell electronic one 10 years ago, fit and forget since, they're not available anymore but I'd imagine the following are equivalents -

http://www.sussexclassiccar.co.uk/shop_factory_hazel/contents/en-uk/d1279.html

http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/AUF214MS.aspx



Nigel Atkins

As rough as that photo looks you might give your electrical contacts (power wire and ground) connection a good clean and brighten back to shinny metal.... looks like a good place for the rust bunnies to take up breeding

But the smart money is a new pump after 20 years. Provided if $100 is not going ro mean your eating cat food for lunch the next 2 weeks...
considering what a tow truck cost and the fact the pump is 20 years old... id break the piggy bank

The one thing i would do is give this phmp a good clean and service and stick it in line with the new pump

You wont find much for new pumps that are points and they are all now some kind of soild state digitial connected to the internet...haha, meaning the slightist bit of acceditial spark will burn your new pump out, so its good to have a back up pump so your not faced with a $200 tow bill or replacing the pump next to the feeway with cars zipping by 14 inches away at 85 mph


A simple modification for your new pump to keep it quite....use a 6 inch or so long X 2 inche peice of galvanised strapping like for the exhaust hanging with the holes drilled every 1 inch or so... just bolt one end to the car the other end to the pump and let hang off the bottom of the inner wheel well so the pump and strap wont touch any thing...it will chatter quitly in the wind with out transfering any noise into the cock pit. Any speed over 15 mph you wont hear it....thsts what i did, works great

Prop
1 Paper

Prop,
have you been talking to Graeme about winding me up about carrying or fitting a spare pumps - you just don't need then, if you want them then that's fine but you don't need them.

Fit a reliable pump correctly and change it in just under 20 years. :)

I've got a spare hi-torque stater motor I keep meaning to take to the recycling but if anyone wants it to repair and carry it in there car they're welcome to it.

If I'd have thought I'd have also saved my previous car battery for someone to carry as a spare, got a spare set of old carbs too if anyone want to carry them in the car. :)

And especially for you Prop - Copy Inflatable Otto The Auto Pilot (from Airplane). :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel

I had one of those pumps with the blue cap. It was fitted to my last Midget when I bought it, but I couldn't stop the carbs from flooding/overflowing.

The original SU pump was in a box in the boot, so I cleaned the points and refitted it and all was well.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave, I had exactly the same problem as you with a Facet Silver Top pump fitted in 1998 and failed after ~15 years. Tap it, just like an SU, and it would work for a short while.

Replaced it with an 'electronic' solid state version of the Silver Top Facet, and so far no problems.

Richard
Richard Wale

DaveO,
I can only suppose that blue caps can be a bit generic or perhaps you had a QH same as me and were unlucky. I'm not sure the two links I put up are for exactly the same pump or which pump, just giving examples.

I don't know who made the QH one I have as it was literally fit 'n' forget 10 years ago, as you know hitting a pump or fiddling with its points aren't in my line of entertainments.

Some of the blue cap type are advertised as made in Germany, the ones Moss, and others, sell are Hardi - http://www.hardi-automotive.com/en/products/fuel-pumps/
Nigel Atkins

Nigal

Imnactuwlly looking for a spare cly head i can carry around just behind the passangers seat... prefably cracked...haha

My not so laid out point of installing a secondary fuel pump has to do with the state of modern day parts

There no longer made in tiwan but now in china and ive seen bad spark plugs right out of the box

I dint think they make a pump with points any longer
the stuff today is mostly junk and its getting harder to find good high quality parts thst hold togather 15 years or longer

These little pumps are no exception a fart can mmake these into paper weights

Me i nevr go anywhere without a set of points... i learned that leason just shy of a year ago when i was traveling and busted one side of the point off.at a truck stop And that was a good set of point with only 5000 miles in them

Prop
1 Paper

Prop,
I'm only jankin' yer chain, there's no harm in carrying what you want. I'm trying to wean you off sugar highs. :)
Nigel Atkins

Ah thats just cruel nigeal, whats next... making fun of ginger colored haired puppies. Haha

Prop
1 Paper

Prop,
I beg you please do not mention your ginger haired puppies as I've not long had tea (dinner).

A mate had a chap work for him who's narcolepsy could be brought on by feeding him a Mars bar or similar, I forget how they gained by doing this but he was a party to it.
Nigel Atkins

If you need Facet spare parts you can get them from the UK importer (Glencoe [was Fuel System Enterprises/FSE])
https://www.glencoeltd.co.uk/facet-fuel-pumps/facet-fuel-pump-parts/

Also from: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/m/facet

Info: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/knowledge_base_articles/view/facet-fuel-pumps-for-vehicles-running-carburettors-282

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Also see: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/knowledge_base_articles/view/replacing-a-worn-or-failed-facet-fuel-pump-302
M Wood

They are a good pump but don't last forever. I'm not sure if I got 20 years out of my first pump but I think you'll find it's time to replace yours.
Daniel

Thanks for all the comments. Fuel pump now replaced like for like with another Facet Silver top.

Interestingly the internal filter was spotless so guessing there’s no crap floating around in the fuel tank.

Hopefully I can get another 20 years out of this one......

Cheers,
Dave
Dave Thrussell

Well done but remember to change it just before 20 years. :)
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 31/10/2017 and 02/11/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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