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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - first engine pull how far to go on parts?

Hi again.
Brief history:
Bought very nice '63 midget (http://gallery.mac.com/jvandyke#100100), lost 4th gear on trip home.
Gearbox was dry.
Found hopefully good replacement box
http://gallery.mac.com/jvandyke#100115
Bought hoist, tilt mechanism.
Got engine out, box off, inspection on old and something is weird, not sure what....
Getting ready to clean up, paint block, touch up bay a bit (nothing major, she's a driver and I want to DRIVE IT)

Wondering how far to go on component replacements.
Supposedly not many miles on clutch components
Here's the clutch disk.
http://homepage.mac.com/jvandyke/disk.jpg

Should I replace clutch disk/pressure plate/release bearing and all mounts or what?
Prudence says "replace everything", wallet says "give it a rest slick before your wife kills you".
I did have some "judder" occasionally on take off. Current engine mounts look fine, old tranny mounts look worse, mounts on recently acquired replacement look better.
Can get a picture of the release bearing(s) too, that's pretty cheap though.
Just don't know how to assess these parts, no experience.
Advice and encouragement welcomed heartily.
Thanks.


J Van Dyke

Clutch looks fine to me!! how did it work before stripping? is the plate contaminated ?

if these are both positive, I would go with re-use.
Anyway, you bought the hoist, so its there whenever you need it!!!!
Mick - I have started painting!!!

Your clutch disc seems to be okay with minimal amount of wear and no visible damage. (If it has a 184 mm diam it has the correct light green damping springs.) If indeed it isn't contaminated with oil it should still work fine.
Pressure plate and flywheel surface should have no grooves and run true. Ditto for the pressure bearing surface. If there is still more than 1.6 mm of carbon bearing standing proud of the metal cup, it is still useable (No cracks or pitting though.)
All swivel points in the clutch fork etc. should be without play.
Maybe best to renew all rubber mounting blocks for engine (2) and gearbox (3) as the rubber softens with age, to eliminate clutch judder.

Great looking Midget you have ! With 9000-plus made it is the rarest model and only very few had factory fitted wire wheels !
Why not bring it back into original condition ? A rolling restoration perhaps ?

Hope this helps,

Nick, 63Midget GAN2L/22802.
D.G.J. Herwegh

Clutch felt fine before I pulled everything other than the judder issue (which was occasional). Don't know if the judder was clutch related or mounts. Clutch plate doesn't look contaminated to me, but this is the first time I've ever looked at one!

I'll plan on reusing it, although I just bid on one on ebay!

Restore it:
I'm torn between wanting a decent driver with a few modern upgrades (which is where it's at, header, Weber, custom dash, interior things) or something more stock. I'm slowly collecting the bits she's missing: bonnet chrome trim, side molding trim for starters......

If I could wave a magic wand and have her as she left the dealership I would!
BTW I think light blue was the original color, judging by a little I see peeking through scratches in the black of the engine bay.
J Van Dyke

If its going to be a daily driver,,,Theres a few mods Id make...

dump the points and condenser for a pertonix ignition system, change out the dyno for an alt(huge advantages---fewer problems), if the wiring is less then decent change it out for a "painless wiring system", upgrade suspension with polybushs and a panhard rod, id stay with the weber and header...But I love the SUs myself....obviously a 5 speed would be awsome and Ideal for todays roads, and a hard top for wintertime driving....Id also get a brake hubs and kingpins ect. inorder to convert the front drums for disc brakes....granted this all gets away from the spirit of a 63 midget....but it will make the car much more dependable and a better drive IMHO

with the engine out...""How long scense the engine has been rebuilt???""....at the vary least, Id replace all the gaskets and seals except the head.....if its been along time 80,000 or more...maybe even hone the cly, new rings, re-grind the valves, and new bearings...just a good all around freshing up


A good tip/ side note...Dont let the engine sit on the oil pan while its out of the car, get an old 15" tire thats really wide and set the engine on the tire, so the oil pan is inside the hole.....if you rest the engine oil pan on the floor, it will compress the oil pan gasket, and will cause alot of leaking within the next several weeks.

prop
Prop

Currently an Allison ignition is bolted on but not hooked up, I have a newer Crane XR700 sitting on the shelf, just need the right shutter and possibly bracket for the optical sensor. Alternator upgrade good idea on the list (just did this to my Opel GT a few weeks before the crash, wanted to salvage the new parts but they were forever entombed in the steel wreckage).
Wires: have new wiring harness in stuff from PO, future project. Already has disks up front.
Engine was supposed to have been overhauled 2,000 miles ago, (and 20 years ago!)
Engine is still hanging from hoist as it didn't feel right to rest it on the oil pan.
I'd hate to have oil leaks after I'm done but I can't imagine the oil seals are needy. Only leak prior to engine pull was the valve cover (pretty polished aluminium one).
It's still positive earth too. I should probably convert it, don't know how the Crane likes that and I want to add a stereo too.
J Van Dyke

I replaced my pertronix with the Crane XR700 and love it.
It's a more obvious mod with the extra box to mount, but worth it.
Phil
Phil

Hey J Van,

Id say you have it covered...with only 20,xxx even tho that was 20 years ago thats a good question...My guess it will be fine, (those A-series are tough little monsters)......Maybe while its out and hasnt been ran in 20 years...pull the pan and look for rust on the internals, add some engine re-build lube to the cam and various places....drop a T-spoon of oil in the clys over night and spin the engine 25 times or so without the plugs.....I imagine she will be ready to go....Id be gentle with the engine the 1st 3xxx miles .... just never know whats going to happen on an engine that has sat un-ran for 20 years.

prop
Prop

Oh, it's been run. The story is 2,000 miles in that 20 year span. I ran it a good 150 miles in the last few weeks. I'm pretty confident the engine is good to go. I'd say 90% chance that I bolt on the new box and I'm set. Now will I get it done without oil leaks and such.....we'll see.
Hoping to find a near miss on olive engine paint so I can respray the block while it's out. Might as well. It's red now but a bit ratty looking.
J Van Dyke

I wonder if it is still the original 10CG type engine ?
And not all were olive green; mine was more "grassy" green.
Best wishes,

Nick, 63Midget GAN2L/22802
D.G.J. Herwegh

At first I thought it was 10cc transplant but on further inspection it is a 10cg and there is green peeking through the red paint, at least on the oil pan. Couldn't find olive green engine paint off the shelf .Duplicolor makes a "Ford Green" that looked okay but 3 places didn't stock it and I'm too lazy to order and wait, looks like it'll get a fresh coat of red.
J Van Dyke

You do realise if it dosnt leak, it means you got real problems....., not to mention the snide looks from other midget owners, besides whats the fun of an A-series engine that dosnt mark its terrotory.....I dont know that Id want a leak-less engine...Id be to afraid it was running out of oil all the time.


prop
Prop

That's funny. That's what went through my head when I was examining the thing to buy it. No leaks? Weird. Now I know why I didn't see many leaky spots, NO OIL IN THE GEARBOX!
I had to go with early Ford Blue for a color, no greens in high temp that I could tolerate. Don't know what possessed me to go blue but I did. Looks pretty good.
Bunch of stuff on the way from VB. First order, hope that outfit is decent.
They were out of the middle gearbox mount rubber. Bummer.
Got boot, inspection plug and release bearing swapped over to new box.
New gasket for gearbox side cover is on the way. I doubt this needs any RTV or similar, right? No oil pressure behind it. Starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. Hope I get to work on it again soon before I forget how it all goes back together!
J Van Dyke

Thats why they make camras...when I pulled the cover of the tranny case I used RTV instead of a gasket,,,worked fine, never leaked (at that location)...be lery of the mounts for the rear of the tranny....mine where new and pulled the tranny a year later and the mounts came un-glued...so when you get them make sure they are tight.

give stuff from moss and VB a good look over...some stuff is good, some stuff bad, some stuff wrong parts, and some stuff just wont fit (all ways to small/short in my case) (stupid pixy fairies)lol.

I have a gut feel the cars tell us what color they want to be painted....not the other way around.

prop
Prop

Almost there.
Box and motor reinstalled. Slowly bolting everything back in place. The cable (still positive earth) from firewall to (solenoid mount? I forgot where it went!) is loosing its coating so now I'm thinking even more about converting it to negative earth. Other than redoing the tach, it seems pretty easy. From this site (for an MGA, would it be any different on a '63 Midget?)
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et202.htm
Seems like it'd be a lot easier to rotate the battery while the bonnet is still off.
On the other hand, little voice says save that project and get it back on the road.
J Van Dyke

Okay, finally got everything buttoned up and I have 4 gears again (and reverse).
Some clutch slip though. I'll put that in another thread. Oil filter leaked like mad at first (I had fitted a spin on adapter) then it quit? How is that possible? I'll keep a very close eye on it.
I had the tools out to tear it down and revert to OEM but the leak wasn't leaking anymore. Weird.
Okay, that wasn't so bad in hindsight.
J Van Dyke

J,

If I had a big leak at the oil filter that quit by its self, I would be taking it apart again to find out why.

Some stuff heals its self, but that does not sound like a likely candidate.

Charley
C R Huff

This thread was discussed between 15/06/2008 and 25/06/2008

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