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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Ford clutch

So, popped out to Burton to pick a new clutch plate, come home and have run into a *slight* issue..


When I asked Peter M for a flywheel I asked for a 7.5" clutch flywheel which he has shipped me and I have now had the entire bottom end balanced...

Of course, either I forgot to tell him or he forgot (former more likely!) that it was for a ford conversion so the holes need a PCD of 222.25mm.

So, either I have the wrong flywheel or my old Valeo cover is miles bigger than I need....

If you look at the photo http://tinyurl.com/9vqbj8 you can see that the holes are drilled too close the center when compared to my original build http://tinyurl.com/9szehz

So, do we think that there is a cover that will fit or do I use my old flywheel?

Both were balanced on their own and then balanced to their respective bottom ends (always balance everything individually) so should not be too far out...

thoughts?
Toby Anscombe

As there are no dowel holes present I wonder if it is intended for some form of race clutch that locates on the step around the friction face. Nice flywheel, I would wait till Monday and give Peter May a call to see what he suggests to rectify the situation.
David Billington

David's advice is a good 'un

your new one could be redrilled to take the Ford Clutch of course, just locating the screw holes in the unused part of the web between curvy slots. Probably without disturbing the balance overmuch too.

But that is quite a step between the cover and the pressure face, isn't it?

What is it 2 or 3mm?

Maybe Peter thought you were going to use one of his race or rally clutch covers, anyone used one of those here? Does the step interfere in operation for ornery clutches?

Anyway, bugg*rit!
Bill

I'd ask Peter if he'll swap the flywheel you have for one specific to the AP Racing/Ford 7.5 Clutch cover (I think the plate is made under licence by Valeo).

The very nice steel flywheel for a Ford 7.5" clutch that I had from Peter did have dowels.

He has changed the design slightly since I had mine but only for a fractionally lighter design.

Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Just thought I would have a look on PM's website while I wait for my tea..

From the photos it looks like its a 7.25" flywheel and not a 7.5"..

So, assuming that I have to change the flywheel can I be ar*ed to rebalance the bottom end?
Toby Anscombe

I would suspect the flywheel is intended for a clutch on the lines of this http://tinyurl.com/9bse82 due to the step and lack of dowel pins. The flywheel machining is here http://www.apracing.com/drawings/cp7371_1cd.pdf .

I wouldn't consider having it machined for a standard road type cover as there is nowhere to put the location dowels unless they can be fastened into thin air, Fischer sky fixings?, or you can have dowels and no bolt holes.
David Billington

David - thanks for the searching; BT seems to be having some problems in my area so a tad limiting....

The drawings are for a lug type 7.25" clutch using a sintered plate. There is a 1"x23 driven plate avalible so...

Whats so good about sintered clutches? - from the limited searching that I can do they seem to be race items..

is a 1/4" going to make a difference?


On the upside, at least its lighter so it means that I can eat more pies ;-)
Toby Anscombe

Toby,

I've been there before so knew where to find the info which helps.

I'm not saying that is the definitive clutch for your flywheel, it's just an example of the type I think is intended to fit on what you bought/were supplied. I noted the 1" x 23 spline listed is what you require. I would be inclined to speak to PM/AP racing about suitability for road use but having discussed it with a few people in the past, while that type can be used on the road it may not be pleasant in use.
David Billington

Dont worry Dave - I havent gone off and ordered bits yet ;-)

I'm guessing that its a more on/off arrangement which is why its not a great solution for the road...my hillstarts will suffer ;-P

I'll see what Peter has to say on monday..

In the meantime, whats your thoughts on running with my old (unbalanced for this engine) flywheel?
Toby Anscombe

hd ya iv been swaping fly wheels around for years between engines ballance/unballanced and to be honest for road use could never say iv had a problem to be honest iv had more concerns over the years with the front pully strange but true , i would say as long as yours is in good condition and the friction face is in good nick id go for it. not telling you how to suck eggs but as we know its when you get into the relms of unknown lightend flywheels thats the dodgy stuff !!
Darren 2 litre frogeye

Toby, yes you have the 7.25" fly, the 7.5" fly is solid with no 'slots' (I've got it on my road midget).
Rich Amos (1 Sprite 1 Midget!)

I'm with Darren on this

the old flywheel should be fine, if you really want it lightened you can have it done yourself, someone posted the details in here some time ago, ISTR.

you have the clutch

(fits the old flywheel)

you have the flywheel

(just wants polishing)

You have so much more time to kill getting this running AND run in by April???

Oh...

and you will probably not get a refund if the PM wheel isnt "as supplied", might need to sell it yourself, as "balanced"

As for the sintered racing clutch doodah

You have driven Lara

the clutch is not comfortable as-is

do you want even worse for road use?

I wouldn't, some days Lara does me 'ead in! Try the bridges with it some time. Creased me!
Bill

Fair comment - even at Gaydon I was struggling with yours!

Its a bugger as the receipt (hand written as always) says 7.5'...

Ho hum, got to fab up a plate for the efi pump today anyhow so it wont make that much difference..

Toby Anscombe

are you using the small rubber cotton reels to mount the pump? and will you be fitting in the axle "chamber" behind the seats?

Use the heaviest gauge steel you can for the mount plate or spend your days hearing the pump w"hiss"ling behind you as the whine takes over your life.

Cavaliers had a combined pump and filter mounting plate/bracket whch might do your job for you "as-is"

Do you need a picture of the setup they use?

in fact here is one...

If using a Bosch type pump make sure you fit the power terminals "up and down" as on the picture. If you fit them "across the middle" there is a very high chance of accelerated pump wear and louder noises as this happens.


Bill

Something like this...

http://tinyurl.com/ay4qfg

http://tinyurl.com/8pc4da

http://tinyurl.com/9ow2jz

Hoping that the exhaust will be so loud I cant hear the pump ;-)
Toby Anscombe

well that ought to do it, as long as the pump and filter are insulated it will do

don't think for a minute that the insulation and vibration damping is FOR YOU

it is so the pump and filter are insulated from car based vibrations

:-)

I would have mounted both on a steel plate meself, but your way should do the jobbie, just ensure the clips don't let them go. Vertical power points ensures the rollers inside the pump ROLL together rather than turn and drop inside on the pumping track, causing expensive wear and failure just at the wrong moment.
Bill

Ta!

I remember when I fitted a Facet (ooo.. about 9 years ago) and forgot to put any rubbers on...

You could feel the whole car vibrate!

The pump is insulated with the bit of rubber round the outside, the filter is just clipped in place (but firmly!).

Free weekend next weekend so much work to do - fancy a trip down?
Toby Anscombe

Might be a good idea
let you know later in the week

Have you done with the crank locker yet, Dave's fretting at the gap on his toolwall

:-)

if not it isnt a worry
Bill

Its been bloody useful! The next flywheel I attach I am sticking with...

So, almost!
Toby Anscombe

I'm planning to make a cranklocker as we discussed here a few months ago

Daves used a steel faced starter flange to weld his cut down bendix to, but there don't seem to be any around anymore so I intend welding an angle "iron" flange across a flat plate so that it will lock the flywheel when used to substitute the starter.

I'll build two

Bill

crank locker? do you mean an 8mm allen key? thats what i use and it works fine!
Tarquin

Er, how? and what do you wedge it against?
Toby Anscombe

Put it one of the backplate holes (long bit) and the short bit into the ring gear.
turn the crank a bit for it to bite and it locks fine.
Tarquin

As always, PM are more than happy to swap..

Chris will do a comparative balance to get the new one spot on which I will pay for so I dont lose anything other than time. Just got to pack it up and send it off...

Ok, so their fault but what separates good suppliers from bad ones is how they deal with problems; he could have turned round and said bugger off, not as supplied and well over a month since it was shipped..

Why can't all suppliers be as good.
Toby Anscombe

Bill

IN the pic you sent, it seems the fuel flow damper is before the pump... is that right? What is purpose?

A
Anthony Cutler

I dunno Anthony but suspect it is down to pump longevity

I have just looked at my old Orion Haynes and it shows a "fuel accumulator" near the pump too, on the old Kjetronic system

It doesnt seem to be the same thing as the pressure reg at the fuel rail though AFAIK.

It looks as if it is intended to maintain a close watch on system pressure, but to be certain we'd need to ask a expert. I suspect it will be part of the emissions kit for the Kjetronic

And to further complicate matters Ford have the pump terminals mounted "across the floor rather than up-and-down"

oh well!

All good research fun though

just "gone over" the Sierra Haynes and it shows the same basic fuel injection set up as my old SAAB
Tank---pump---injector rail and the pressure reg on the return line from the fuel rail to the tank. Picks up (loses?) vacuum from the inlet manifold to regulate pressure at the rail.

But the pictures and text describe a "damper" just after the pump, too as well as the pressure reg...

maybe, just maybe, an idea to pick up one and install it.

confused? me? yup I yam.
Bill

This thread was discussed between 17/01/2009 and 19/01/2009

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