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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front wheel bearings

Can anyone recommend a particular brand or supplier of front wheel bearings. What I want is a pair of bearings that once fitted will have zero play in them and will last ten thousand miles of road use (hard cornering on 175/70 road tyres).

Thanks

Daniel
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

RHM, or SKF or anything German or Japanese. You need to find out the sizes and buy the bearings individually from a bearing specialist, rather than from a MG supplier. I would recommend simplybearings.co.uk - but I don't know the sizes off the top of my head.
C L Carter

Daniel,
I saw your messages on the "other" forum. I thought you must have been sleeping during the previous lengthy discussions here! Check the archives for details about front wheel bearings and problems with fitting the new ones that are usually supplied, rather than getting properly "face adjusted" ones!
Guy

The 'proper' ones will cost £156 per side of the car! Yes, that's one hundred and fifty six pounds sterling each side of the car.

Given that the not so proper ones of the past have cost a lot less I can live with a considerably shorter bearing life.

What I'm interested in are reasonable quality bearings that might have a shortish life but are decent for the first say, 5-6000 miles.

The bearings Moss sells are just over a tenner each. I need the bearings by the middle of the week as the Sprite is my only car and I needed it running last weekend let alone next weekend.

So any suggestions?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Sorry Daniel, I wasn't trying to encourage you to pay extortionate amounts for bearings. Its not about longevity of the bearings as such. But my understanding from previous discussions here is that unless the bearings are face adjusted then it is just hit and miss whether the next one out of the box will fit without excessive play from day one. That is why I suggested looking in the archives. Not that I can ever find anything that I look for there!
Guy

Hi Guy, I can't believe that all the bearings sold are rubbish. I've discovered the ones I bought from ebay some years ago certainly are - having more play from brand new than the ones I'm replacing. I'll live with a bearing with a short live as long as the first 6000 miles of that short life are practically zero play. I'd guess the bearings on the car at present have done something like ten if not 15 or 20 thousand miles.

What I'm after then is something ok out of the box but less than £156 a side. So - anyone had anything OK out of the box and who from?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Daniel,
Try these people:
http://www.davidharries.co.uk/
They are based in Whitland, Carmarthenshire but sell every conceivable bearing going. I have asked about these myself in
The past and at that time they were about £75 a bearing.
Neil
Neil K

I got SKF bearings from my brothers workplace for 35£ each don't know what size they are though since he fixed it for me..

By the way aren't there books about this stuff ;-)
Alexander Sorby Wigstrom

Daniel, the modern bearings are NOT rubbish. The problem is that they are NOT designed for Spridget Stubaxles. They just happen to fit, but not perfectly.

The price of those that do fit properly, is high, as they are made in limited quantities.

Suggest you have a look in the archives. There have been extensive discussions on this very recently that will explain the problem to you.

As for being expensive. If you do pay 100 quid Plus per side, then once fitted, they will last for a very long time. You pays yer money, and you makes yer choice.

Or should that be, you makes yer choice, and you pays yer money?
Lawrence Slater

Hi Lawrence, I do understand the problem and the solution of bearings that last a long time isn't quite what it seems.

The reason I say that is that the brake discs will not last a very long time and on a w/w car the hub has to be removed to replace the disc. Now if the hub is removed from the stub axle with the barings intact, all well and good but it if doesn't and the bearings separate then they'll need replacing even though they would have been no-where near the end of their 'natural' life.

There's also a big difference from £100 a side and £154 a side.

So any suggestions of bearings that will do the job, albeit not as long as the proper bearings but at a lot less than £154 a side?
Daniel Thirteen-Twelve

Unipart/Partco have an Original Equipment (O.E) matching quality guarantee, apparently. I wonder if that includes their wheel bearings?
Dave O'Neill2

That'd be interesting Dave. I tried unipart recently for something. The problem is they didn't stock what I wanted as it was for them at least obsolete. I suspect that could be the same with our wheel bearings.

Daniel.
Steel wheel hubs also have to come off to replace the disc. The problem of the inner bearing, only arises if you can't get the hub off, without the inner bearing coming apart.

The solution is to ensure that doesn't happen.

Before you fit the new INNER bearing into the hub, make sure it is a sliding fit on the stubaxle shaft. If tight, take a strip of fine grade wet and dry, and smooth the innermost portion of the shaft, so that the bearing slides freely enough to slip off when removing the hub.

I also think this has to be put into perspective. Let's say you fit new bearings at 300 quid. 150 per side. Let's say you keep the car for 15 years. The expensive bearings will still be good, if fitted and greased properly.

However, lets say they are knackered. 300 quid over 15 years, is 20 quid a year. That's bugger all. I appreciate that spending £300 instead of circa £20-£50 is a large increase. I used to buy the real OEMS for less than that kind of money. But that's life. A bonnet is now over £400 quid too, but would you fit an ill fitting one instead of the decent one, to save money? There was always that coice with f/glass wings. I prefer steel.

The cheaper bearings will do the job. They are safe. But dependant on the MOT station, might fail. That and the fact that most people don't like a bit of play in the front bearings is the real problem.

If you're only getting 6000 - 10000 miles out of the bearings, I'd say the bearings you're using are not a lot of good, and may well be poor quality.

You say road use. Do you mean road racing? I've got way more than 100K miles from my front and rear bearings. I don't race, but I drive like a loony.
Lawrence Slater

Hi Daniel,

I think that the lowest cost alternative would be to find a set of tapered bearings that fit, and then cut down the spacer and shim the assembly like MGB front wheel bearings are done. As long as you keep the 0.002 ~ 0.004" clearance after shimming then they ought to work just as well.

Speedwell claims to sell such a kit, but I've not known anyone to try it yet to report back to us about it:

http://www.speedwellengineering.com/suspension/tapered-front-wheel-bearing-conversion/

At $200US, or 126GBP, it is cheaper than the OEM, "fit and forget" ones.
I am sure that one can put together their own kit for less, if they have a cheap source for the tapered bearings and shims, and know what they are doing to get the shimming right.

The only downside that I know of, after all of the research, is that it takes more steps to set up (but for the savings, a mechanic can easily do those steps, and those steps are the same as for an MGB), and tapered bearings maybe have slightly more drag than rollers (but I doubt that is a reason to reject them, in the case of an enthusiast car used for fun and not so much for maximum fuel economy).

The advantage of tapered bearings is that they come apart every time, anyway, allowing easy clean/inspection/re-greasing at every disc rotor replacement interval.


Norm
Norm Kerr

Hi Daniel this is my favourite subject and one I put a great deal of effort into a number of years ago.

Firstly there are 2 problems with new bearings for our front wheel assmebly

1 cheap replacement bearings are NOT FACE ADJUSTED and WILL cause excessive play when fitted. I worked with an engineer friend of mine from NSK (previously RHP, previously Ransomes and marles) and using the original BMC Leyland drawings realised the originals were a special that required the 20 degree angular bearings to be made face adjusted. This is no longer available as normal supply.

By modern standards 40 degree angular contact bearings of the same dimensions are available and are also available in FACE ADJUSTED specification. These then were the perfect replacement.

2 Unfortunately in the mean time our US commarades identified what they believed was another issue with mnodern bearings. The inner bearing radius was possibly too severe and would cause modern bearings to not seat correctly against the stub axle face. It should be considered that ALL modern bearings would be the same whether they are 40 degree angular contact or tapers if this problem is genuine then all will be the same.

I am sceptical of this problem for 2 reasons.
1 the person who noted this problem claimed that it had caused the disk to run out of centre to such an extent that the disk fouled the caliper. If you were to believe that the bearings did not seat correctly against the stub axle face then you would also expect this disk runout and collide with the caliper. However I have never seen this and in reality I would think that when that occured it must have been for some other reason.

Myself I have fitted the 40 degree angular contact bearings that are face adjusted as advised by NSK. These are perfect and when installed immediately removed the play from my front wheels. Also my disks run absolutely true in the centre of the caliper suggesting that the bearings are seated correctly. I personally would advise anyone with this problem to do the same.

The bearing numbers are

NSK no’s 7303BEAT85SUN 7205BEAT85SUN or in SKF no's 7303BECBP 7205BECBP

Bob Turbo Midget England

You can also take the non-face adjusted, and measure them out. I did that, had to shorten the distance piece on one side a few thou. No problems so far.
Alex G Matla

I too did that many years ago Alex

However that does lead to other issues.

Firstly you need to be able to remove the hub and bearings in one piece to sort the machining out and secondly once the centre piece has been machined then next time you fit "normal" bearings there will be a good chance that they will be too tight and will destroy themselves prematurely.

Finally if our American collegues are correct you too should have a problem with disk alignment in the caliper?
Bob Turbo Midget England

I needed 10 thou off my spacer to make a set of PM bearings fit. Without this, you could see and hear the bearing play. It was at least as bad as the worn bearing I was replacing (it had started to become noisy after 30+ years of good service).

I'll worry about the next bearing in 27 years.

A
Anthony Cutler

Could one not equally well add a shim behind the outer race seating, retaining the centre spacer unaltered for 27 year's time? I guess the difficulty would be in getting a measurement and then dismantling to add the shim without damaging the bearing.
Guy

Bob, caliper is fine. actually didn't look at it at the time.
Alex G Matla

I fitted taper rollers to my Mk3 midget in the mid 1980's - they are still there, serviced every few years and adjusted to optimum disk runout. Done about 50,000 miles since then.

Throw the ball bearings away - you won't regret it.

But get someone who knows what they are doing to fit them - they are not a direct replacement - you will need to modify the hubs.


A L SLATTERY

I was thinking along similar lines to Guy.
Would it be possible to
a) insert a spacer on the face of the stub axle (ie behind the inner bearing) so that in effect the non faced adjusted bearing would be sitting flush with the stub axle or
b) have the stub axles machined to remove the 'shoulder' and allow the non faced bearings to butt tight up against the stub axle - this may then need additional shimming to make up for the machining or
c) am I barking up the wrong tree? (some may say just barking...)
BTW I opted for the standard replacements so will see how long these last.

Jeremy
Jeremy 3

Jeremy,
I certainly wouldn't be doing option b. Unless I have misunderstood you. The radius at the root of the stub is essential to prevent fracture there. Machining it off would be a very bad idea. You do not want your stub to drop off!
Guy

I'm going to add my tuppence. I prefer the tapered rollers and recommend them if you are running wider than stock tyres or racing tyres. The tapered rollers are much better at carrying the side loads imposed by larger rubber and racing. It's a bit of a hassle to fit them, have to check the inner bearing radius and match it to the spindle, not all spindles are machined with the same radius it seems as found during tests here in the US, so there's no known bearing that will fit all applications yet because of this problem. I hand ground the radius on my inner bearings to match the spindles on my car with a die grinder, then cleaned them well and repacked and no problems at all now for several thousand miles. Most all Spridget racers here in the US run tapered bearings, most useing the Speedwell or Winner's Circle kits.
Once fitted
As for poor fitting bearings offsetting the disc far enough to foul the pads, that can happen with incorrectly fitting tapered roller bearings. On my first installation of tapered rollers before I was aware of the problem with the radius I couldn't fit the new pads into the calipers without grinding almost 1/16" off the outside pad.
Once fitted correctly though I think tapered rollers are much preferable to the ball bearings, don't have the side play to worry about or "shake" when you get your MOT and as Mr. Slattery said easy to remove for brake maintenance without damage.
Most of that damage to the ball type bearins is from the inner race sticking on the spindle because of a slight interference on the radius of the spindle I believe. If the clearance radius isn't large enough,then when you torque down the spindle nut you effectively jam the inner race on the spindle and then it pulls apart when you try to remove the hub.
Photo of my car's front, new Brembo rotors, EBC pads, and tapered roller bearings installed. Alignment is perfect with the calipers.


B Young

Bill who told you twin tapers were stronger than double row angular contact balls correctly spaced and fitted? I am pretty sure they are not? and on top of that they cause more friction than the double row angular contact balls that were fitted originally by MG and also are to be found in almost all modern wheel bearing applications. Tapers are a cheap alternative used by some motor manufacturers for rear wheel applications.

They can be strengthened up by fitting a suitable spacer in between of the correct dimension, is this how you fitted yours?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thanks Guy - on option B that was something I'd obviously not considered...ahem.
Option A may be a consideration though as Norm Kerr suggests something very similar with his excellent article at http://www.mgexperience.net/article/mgb/mg-midget-wheel-bearings/MG%20Midget%20Stub%20Axle%20Modulus%20Study.pdf

Jeremy
Jeremy 3

Jeremy you have slightly mis understood the problem

Face adjusted bearings correct the problem of play encountered when fitting new bearings that will maybe fail MOT

Interference by the inner bearing because of the stub axle fillet is a different problem and if it existed would be rectified as you suggest by the fitting of a suitable shim behind the inner bearing. This of course would not cure the problem of play in the front wheel.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

If the stub axle fillet does result in a problem with modern bearings, is there any reason why this couldn't be machined?
It looks like the 40 degree face adjusted bearings could be purchased for around £120 a set. This isn't too outrageous.

-- Josh
Josh L

The stub axle fillet is there to prevent the axle shaft snapping off, as I understand it. So machining it away is a bad idea.
Lawrence Slater

Take a look at this pic. This is one hub from a full suspension setup I bought cheap on ebay, just for the stub axles. I'm reluctant to pull the bearings, as they have no play.

The pic shows a 39LJT25 inner bearing in situ. Look also at the oil seal. It's stamped made in UK, and has a felt outer above a rubber seal. I haven't seen an oil seal like this for years. I'm guessing this is an original BMC item. As I say, I'm reluctant to pull the bearings, as they have no play. But I'd dearly like to know if they are originals.

I'm wondering. Just because the inner race is stamped 39LJT25, does this confirm original RHP bearings, or are modern equivalents also stamped this way?




Lawrence Slater

Hi Law

There are 3 types of bearings

Original as per BMC/Leyland spec which is what I believe your bearing to be.

There are also modern equivelents that are numbered different (7303 and 7205) but have the same BASIC dimensions. They will be the same internal dia, the same external dia and the same width, they will not however be face adjusted as the original drawing dictates. I have copies of the original drawings that I have supplied to others.

Finally there are some original old stock which would be stamped accordingly and apparently some new bearings that are supposedly made to original specs, I have never seen any of these so I can not comment.

I would be interested to know what the fillet radius is on that bearing mate?
Bob Turbo Midget England

Bob,

To be pedantic a bog standard 7303 and 7205 won't be face adjusted but can be ordered as such if the correct suffixes are appended which vary from maker to maker. The other big issue is that the standard bearings are for general engineering and won't have the larger radius required on the inner race of the inner bearing.

Having looked at a number of bearings, like the BMC ones but taper roller, they have similar larger than normal radius on the inner bearing to suit the larger fillet radius on the stub axle. I presume in each case they were specially made to suit the stub axle use.

Anyone have any of the cheapo current bearing offering that they can check if the radius is as large as required, > 2mm IIRC.
David Billington

Robert, lets not confuse spindle strength with the bearings strength in regard to side loading. Tapered rollers are definitely stronger in side loading capaicity than ball bearings, even the thrust type used on the Midget spindle. Spindle strength is another matter. I'm not sure about how much strength the spacer lends to the spindle assemlby if any. My take is that it's there to prevent over loading the ball bearings when installing, leaving just enough play in the ball bearings to turn freely but still have the correct fit against the thrust face. I have yet to understand how the spacer would add any significant strength to the spindle if installed according to the manual. For tht to happen the assembly would have to be under compressive tension at all times, yet the instructions as I've read them call for torqueing to spec and then backing off to the first position where a cotter pin can be inserted in the nut, thereby removing some of the compressive tension on the assembly. The weak point of the spindle is where the spindle meets the upright and that's where the radius is machined in to prevent stress risers from forming at that location. If there is any play between the inner face of the upright and the inner bearing face then there is room for movement of the spindle in relation to the upright at that critical point. Most tapered rollers are installed with out the spacer and simply adjusted to the proper drag and then backed off on the nut until a cotter pin can be installed. Those are the instructions from Timken Bearing for installing their tapered rollers in a Spridget and I'm sure that they wuoldn't recommend anything that was unsafe due to liability reasons.
There is always a potential for spindle failure as with any part of a car, but for street use with reasonable tyres I've never heard of a failure. Most of the SCCA racers here running slicks and cornering at far more that 1 G, almost 2 Gs at times run tapered rollers, but replace the original spindle with one machined from stronger steel and pressed into the upright similar to the way the TR Spitfire spindle is constructed. No spacer is used between the bearings.
Since I installed the taperd rollers on my car I've driven it many thousands of miles and had it on three race tracks for track days without any problems with the bearings or signs of cracks on the spindles. I'm running 7" wide rims and 205 50 13 Yokahama A048s which are a great performance street/ track tyre so impart plenty of side loading to the suspension when cornering.
I'm not an engineer but have done my research on this subject and can only speak from that and personal experience with my car, but based on those criteria I feel the conversion to tapered roller bearings is a positive step and would eliminate much of the MOT problems you guys in England are having with the thrust type ball bearings.
B Young

David
You will be aware that the originals were only 20 degree angular contact so when I enquired about getting these in face adjusted spec I was told that was not an option for standard use. However there are naturally companies who would buy these bearings and re machine them to face adjusted spec but this would add considerable cost. That was the costing that made 40 degree face adjusted bearings a more affordable solution.

Bill I can only go on the advice I was given by an NSK applications expert when assessing the most suitable bearing for a front wheel bearing. They told me that a double row 40 degree angular contact bearing was far better in every respect to a tapered roller. The original Midget bearing was just that except it used 20 degree agular bearings and not the more modern 40 degree jobs

I am shocked that Timken accepted home grinding the inner fillet radius as being an acceptable mod to one of their bearings! but I am not their lawyer! :)

Bill also there seems to be a fundemental difference between the problems encountered by UK Spridget drivers and those in the US

In the US the problems appear to be mainly one of breaking stub axles where as in the UK we have hundreds of free play problems that cause us headaches at MOT times but I have as yet had no experience of stub axle failures maybe there are others in the UK who have had failures but I don't know any

The question I suppose is why is that? and why was Toms wheel bearing such a poor fit that it meant the brake disk colided with the caliper?? That was a long way out and that bearing must have been supplied from Mars!!
Bob Turbo Midget England

Lawrence, I've seen 34LJT25 and 38LJT25 bearings for this application, think the first two digits are an incremental production version and make no material difference to the spec; I have a NOS one in a BMC box (early 60s?) which is R&M, and another in an early Unipart box which is RHP. Unsure when the name change was though.
David Smith

Thanks for confirming that Bob/Dave.

Here's an update.
I had a closer look at the outer bearing. There was a small dig in the plastic/resin cage. So even though there was no play in the hub, my curiosity won out, justified by the slight damage to the resin cage on the outer. In short, I popped the outer bearing, and took the lot out.

They are RHP. They fit snug as a bug.

They must be pretty old. I can see the stub axles have obviously been rebushed in the past (maybe exchanged), but my guess is, that these bearings have been in the hubs for a long time. Not original though, unless they have been removed before. There are old longitudinal scratches where the bearings sit, suggesting either they were renewed or removed and refitted in the past.

I don't have a set of radius gauges. Can anyone tell me how to make a crude measurement of the radius on the inner bearing?

The ball race of the outer bearing, came out with very little effort(just as I remembered from the last time I changed mine), and goes back together with even less effort. In the past, I used to dump the inners and keep the outers for drifts to put the new bearings in. But since they cost more now, and they are in such good condition, I'm going to re-grease them and put them back in the hub.

I post some pics later of the strip down, and of the bearing set and spacer assembled on the axle shaft.

BTW. the spacer is 1.5" dead.
Lawrence Slater

Bob,

I did have a look and found some 15 degree IIRC angular contact bearings which were dismantlable and ones with higher contact angles that weren't. This was just a quick search to see if angular contact bearings which could be dismantled were available to aid shimming. I have no idea on cost, I doubt cheap, or the load bearing characteristics compared to the originals.

Lawrence,

Drill a suitable hole in a piece of sheet metal, 4mm IIRC as the radius of the bearing was to be 2mm minimum, and cut a 90 degree section out giving you a radius gauge. Or look on ebay.
David Billington

David, that's brilliant. So simple it takes a genius to suggest it. :).

And much cheaper than me paying circa £10 for something I have never needed before. :)
Lawrence Slater

Speaks for itself.




Lawrence Slater

Timken did not recommend grinding the radius of the bearings. Their instructions were for a bearing that they used to manufacture for that application with a larger radius on the inner race. That bearing had the same base part number with a suffix letter indicating the special radius on the inner race. They no longer make that bearing, so I used one of their later designs and modified it myself. Don't recommend that to anyone else of course. As to Tom's problem with the bearing offset, the guys here in the US researching the bearing fit problems found at least three different fillet radiuses on several different Spridget spindles, so a bearing that might fit one car perfectly may not clear correctly on another.
All bearings, wheither roller or ball type should fit flush against the face of the upright where the oil seal rides as shown in the photo Lawrence posted. I've mesured gaps on my car between the bearing face and the upright of almost .125" with some bearings and as little as .060" on others. Still not nearly flush. The amount I had to remove to increase the radius was minimal to allow the bearing to slide smoothly up to the face and fit flush.
It seems that you guys have a much better source of high quality face adjusted ball bearings but the cost is high and if the fit is just a bit off then you may have problems with the MOT inspectors. Tbank goodness that we don't have a national MOT here, but some local inspectors still don't like the feel of ball type bearings as they are just not used to working with them. Had one comment on my Lotus for that reason and it's really a pretty good fit actually, but more play than they're used to feeling with tapered roller type bearings.
B Young

Bob,
Following Davids suggestion of drilling a 4mm hole, and exposing a 90 degree section to make a 2mm radius gauge, here's the result. Bit crude, but does the job.

Bearing is an RHP 39LJT25 original.




Lawrence Slater

4mm drill shaft against the axle fillet.


Lawrence Slater

Yep

That confirms that is an original bearing. :)

The original drawings supplied to RHP required he bearing "pair" to be face adjusted and o have that radius at least 2mm

Yours has that

Modern bearings of all descriptions tend to require as much "land" as possible on that inner race edge (for obvious reasons) and tend to be specified to have only at least 1mm, thus this means that the fillet on the hub needs to be at 1mm also. I have not seen an original drawing for the stub axle but I suspect that the fillet would be specified as being 1.5mm +/- .5mm if it was outside these dimensions (bigger) then the bearings would not have fitted correctly.

Bill
Seeing that you will see that the maximum a bearing can be out is only 1mm that would not put the disk into contact with the caliper and that is the reason why Toms must have been for a different reason, do you not agree? I suspect his stub axle was not to original specifications?

Also not sure what you mean about your side not being used to rollers?

A correctly fitted pair of rollers do not have any play, exactly the same as tapers. So any that do are faulty or incorrectly fitted, the design is not the problem.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Here's a thought. Bearing removal from the hubs without damage.

The problem as stated many times, is that you can't get at the drift pockets to remove the bearings, because the spacer covers the drift pockets. Presumably BMC didn't think this an issue, because the bearings were plentiful in the correct specifications, lasted for ages, and were also cheap enough(used to be) to destroy on removal anyway. (Actually to remove the spacer, you only need to “pop” the inner race of the outer bearing, which comes out easily, and may not damage it much, if at all).

However, suppose you want to TRIAL fit new bearings in the hub, but don't want to risk any damage to them by taking them out again. --- And don’t have access to liquid nitrogen.

The way to fit and then remove the bearings without damage, is to have a spare modified spacer with a slot cut in it, exposing the drift pockets. Do your trial using the modified spacer, and then when installing permanently, fit an unmodified spacer.

But I wonder if a slot or deep groove cut in the spacer, would still leave the spacer strong enough to install in the hub permanently? If so, it might be a useful modification when fitting new bearings.



Lawrence Slater

Sorry... just wanted to check this since reading this and many other threads it gets a little confusing as to the best approach.

I bought some bearings from a well known MG parts supplier and found that they tightened up when the hub nut was done up. I checked the spacer and it is exactly 1.5in as it should be. With the bearings in place there is a gap between the spacer and the centre race. The bearings are obviously getting crushed as the hub nut is tightened.

I will speak to the supplier on Tuesday, but if I order:

SKF no's 7303BECBP 7205BECBP

will this be the end of my problems? I notice that these are available from the 'Bearing Boys' on Amazon.

TonyJH

I'd like to know what your supplier says, and if they acknowledge that the bearings they sold you, are not the correct bearings, even though they sold them as correct.

As regards the bearing boys bearings, are they face adjusted?

Section from an article by Norm Kerr, and which Rob has explained many times.

---- "face adjusted", which means that their inner and outer races are machined to be < 0.001" from each other, crucial for preventing too-loose / too-tight fit in the hub.

Before you buy them, you should ask. The prices on the bearing boys website, seems to suggest they are not face adjusted, as those are pretty cheap prices.

£24.44 7303-BECBP,
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/7303-BECBP_SKF_Single_Row_Angular_Contact_Ball_Bearing-22185-p

£23.45 7205-BECBP SKF, 7205BECBP
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/7205-BECBP_SKF_Single_Row_Angular_Contact_Ball_Bearing-22430-p
Lawrence Slater

OK, I've asked the Bearing Boys by email if the bearings that they sell are face adjusted.

Back to my original replacement bearings, the supplier said that he had had no problems with the bearing kits and had fitted 2 over the weekend without issue. He was definitely doubting me but has agreed to send me another set. I'm willing to accept that I somehow managed to fit the bearing incorrectly, but I'm not sure how that's possible.

When I hold a straight edge against the outer bearing he first sent me the outer race is definitely proud of the inner race which is where I suspect my problem is...

Let's see what happens when the replacement set arrives.
TonyJH

Tony, can you tell us who the supplier is? You won't be telling anybody anything, other than the facts. I.e. I bought bearings from "x" supplier.

What will you do if the replacements don't fit properly?
Lawrence Slater

Any response from the bearing boys? Their website uses the phrase 'angular contact'. Is that the same thing as face adjusted?
andrew
aj robinson

no, angular contact is not the same thing as face adjusted

angular contact is the basic design of the bearing (almost like saying, "ball bearing")

face adjusted is a secondary process done after a bearing is assembled to make sure the faces of the inner and outer races are within 0.001" of each other

anyone selling a face adjusted bearing will definitely say so, as it costs more and is not necessary for most bearing applications

if there is no mention of it in the supplier's literature, assume that it is not done


Norm
Norm Kerr

Thanks Norm.
aj robinson

Here's a drawing of angular contact from SKFs website, and a link to their description of ball bearings. Very good read.

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?maincatalogue=1&lang=en&newlink=1_3_1




Lawrence Slater

If you look at this http://www.skf.com/files/151315.pdf pages from 19 to 22 they are calling them universally matchable which I see as the same thing as face adjusted so the BearingsBoys bearings should do the job except you have to take account of the inner radius of the inner bearing being too small and a shim would be required to pack the bearing away from the radius or the radius in the bearing altered. Page 25 gives the radius details.
David Billington

Ah, that must be what SKF mean too then david.
http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/products?maincatalogue=1&lang=en&newlink=1_3_3
Lawrence Slater

Having looked at the internal clearances page, page 20, in the SKF PDF I mentioned I think I would want to check the length of the spacer to make sure it was the same as the hub shoulder distance. A recent post mentioned a newly bought spacer being 0.0015" less than the nominal 1.5" it should be so close to or removing all clearance with the CB bearings.

Does anyone know if the original hub and spacer drawings exist or what the dimensions should be with the tolerances.
David Billington

No response from the 'bearing boys' as yet.

I tried the replacement bearing from my supplier (who I don't think I should name) and it is a slightly better fit than the previous one, but still not correct.

Same as before, when the hub nut is torqued up the bearing is crushed since the hub becomes stiff on the stub axle. However in the case of the new bearing I had to back the hub nut off slightly to enable me to get the split pin through and this means that the hub now rotates OK. The bearing is obviously going to have a short life though given that the spacer is not able to correctly do its job.

I did check the hub spacer and on my micrometer it measured 1.5004 inches, so allowing for accuracy that seems pretty much spot on. I haven't got the appropriate tools to measure the hub shoulder distance with any accuracy unfortunately.
TonyJH

In the circumstance that Tony describes, can one not just add a shim to the face of the inner spacer?

Guy

Hi Guy,

Can you point me to a supplier where I could purchase a shim for this?

Thanks,

Tony
TonyJH

No I cannot.
But at one time it was possible to buy shims in a variety of generic sizes and thicknesses from engineering suppliers, in the same way that one can buy bearings. I presumed it is still possible to do so.
Guy

I today purchased from my local motor factor a front wheel bearing kit for a spridget. It was also listed for morris minor etc. It was a quinton hazell kit QWB 105C. It was in the modern QH packaging. Inside, wait for it, were the two bearings marked RHP Made in England numbers 39LJT25 and MJT17. The cost inc vat was £18.15. My factor confirmed that stock was still available from QH. Now either these bearings are cheap copies in which case there is a potential claim against QH or we the usual suppliers are rather ripping us all off!!
Bob Beaumont

Wow! Thanks for that information Bob. I've found at least one online supplier that is listing that kit. Please let me know how they fit as I will order a set should they prove OK.
TonyJH

If they are real, can you order 500 of each?! Quickly!!
Andrew
aj robinson

Hi Bob,

Could you share the name of your supplier with a fellow Londoner? I need to change my discs so this would be good to have in stock in case things go wrong.

-- Josh
Josh L

Hi Josh

They came from Stockwell Motor Accessories,0207 582 3666
Bob Beaumont

I went to my local Camberley Auto Factors today and they told me that part number was obsoleted in Nov 2010. Any stock that is left is obviously old stock.

They are going to speak to QH on Monday to see if there is an alternative. I also gave them the RHP part numbers so we'll what they come back with.
TonyJH

Any news please?
Andrew
aj robinson

All bad news I'm afraid. Camberley could get nothing from QH since they have no stock left. There is no equivalent replacement from QH. It's a case of trawling smaller motor factors or ebay in the hope of finding someone with original stock left.
TonyJH

I've heard that shimms from an MGB will work on the Midget if needed.
B Young

Calling Bob Beaumont: Do the bearings fit ok?
aj robinson

Sorry, yes bearings are fine and it all bolts up ok and runs very sweetly. The outer bearing is a little more tricky to fit as the outer race is slightly narrower than the original but no big deal. The bearings are marked RHP, UK made but with resin rather than brass cages.
Bob Beaumont

I have potentially traced a supplier who has some NOS QH bearings kits which have the RHP bearing sets: SAP parts 29/33 Brighton Road Addlestone Surrey tel 01932 857921. The price is £23.99 plus postage.
Bob Beaumont

In the thread about the 10" brakes something of interest has turned up.

http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/
make several brake kit's with custom hubs and taper bearings.

I have inquired and they will now investigate making them to fit std midget brakes.

They are mad out of en8 and then zinc plated and e coated so properly protected.

These will solve 2 problems.
-improper bearings causing MOT failure
-worn hubs causing lose bearings causing MOT failure

If there is enough interest they might do a run and the more they make the cheaper they are......
Onno K

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2012 and 01/05/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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