MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Front wing repair. Loadsa money saved :)..

Two new wings cost circa £900 plus delivery. Even half decent 2nd hand wings can go for over £100 for an imperfect example a lot of the time, and I missed out on several very good used ebay items that went for "silly" money. Given these – imo -- crazy costs, I decided to save myself a nice few quid by repairing my rusted front wings.

By the time I'd removed the paint and filler, both of these looked a lot worse.





Lawrence Slater

I bought a lower front section from Dave O'neill I think, to repair the left hand side wing. But as the two sides are mirrors of each other, I decided to use it as a template to make repair sections for both instead. I started by making the missing sections of lip and welding those on.


Lawrence Slater

Then I made the missing sections. I used flat card, bending and cutting to make it fit. Using those as my patterns I made the metal sections.


Lawrence Slater

Turned out to be quite easy in the end, if a little time consuming because I hadn't done it before. I did the right hand side first, which gave me the "expertise" to take far less time doing the left hand side.

Given the amount of money saved and the satisfaction derived, well worth my time I reckon. Just needs a bit of grinding and polishing to finish. No need to buy new wings ever again, as long as they aren't pulverized in a smash, -- and me along with it lol.



Lawrence Slater

that looks extremely satisfying
:-)
David Smith

Nicely done Lawrence, couldn't have done it better meself.

:)

I find it really satisfying to get down and work steel into shape too, therapeutic kind of work. Heavy noises of hammering and watching steel transform to where I want the stuff.

Lovely.
Bill1

Very nice well done.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Not bad for a first effort ;)
Next time use a hammer and sandbag to shape in less pieces. It's extremely satisfying to shape a flat bit of steel in to a new panel even if it take a little longer.

All the same, good job and money saved for go faster bits...

Best of....

MGmike
M McAndrew

And make sure that you seal it really well, especially the back, or the rust gremlins will get in again! Also, I think there should be another drainage hole in the corner close to the middle valance joint. When skimming over the front to hide any weld irregularities and "fine tune" the curves, use a metal, not a polyester based filler.

Or as you like developing new skills and having fun, why not try your hand at lead-loading the surface and then shaping with rasp and files?
Guy Weller

Thanks for those complimentary comments chaps. I'm blushing lol.

Mike they are both single piece sections, other than the lips. I did have a go hammering it out of a flat sheet without slicing it to bend it, but my skills obviously don't run to that, as I just ended up with bent metal. lol.

"use a metal, not a polyester based filler." Any suggestiions Guy? What's good without being very expensive? I replicated the original drain holes next to the central valance Guy, it just doesn't show in those pic's.

I found it quite therapeutic too Bill. But my neighbours found the noise of the grinder on the welds, less so. I might not get bbq invites next summer. lol.
Lawrence Slater

I tried to make these without slicing segments. But I couldn't do what I once saw a Jaguar bodyshop man do, when he made an S type front wing section from flat sheet, and no cuts. No doubt he served a pucker apprenticeship to get as good as he was.

Thinking. Maybe it was Dave Smith who I bought the lower wing section from? I'm getting forgetful. Should I be worried? ;).


Lawrence Slater

I'm not owning up to that Lawrence - if I do no doubt you'll want your money back as you didn't use it !!
David Smith

That's a fairly easy form to make with a suitable mallet and a sandbag/shotbag to form the main double curved section. I would use one of the bossing mallets shown here http://www.tools4atthebench.com/product-category/mallets/ . As with anything like this a experienced instructor is very useful but if one is willing to have a go then much can be learned in the attempt and of course lots of information on the likes of youtube.
David Billington

lol. No worries David S. I'm going to keep it for potential future use. Or I could always ebay it for a profit. ;).

I suppose the right hammers would definitely have helped. But mainly it's my lack of finesse with the hammers I've got. I still managed to skin the cat though :).
Lawrence Slater

Therapy, can't beat it Lawrence.

The metal based filler of choice that I always, always use is Holt's Metallic, I expect there are others but I haven't found any as easy to get in "the high street".

It has no talc in its recipe and therefore it doesn't readily swell up as the usual white fillers do after a while, if allowed to get wet.

Behind any slightly cranky surfaces small rust bubbles can start a talc based filler swelling and wrecking your work.

Always prime it well too but I am sure that is egg sucking training from granny.

I let my metalwork lay bare for a day or five then I treat it with a rust repellent, Trustan was my favourite tannic acid based treatment coat, I understand there's a different tannic acid based one now...

Just cannot remember the name, no doubt Google will be my friend in a minute.

Ah yes it sems that Trustan's mantle is now being carried by Fertan (available on a certain web based "Auction seller" for only a few quid)

I would be happy to use that after reading the reviews.

Anyway, nice work.
Bill1

Nice one lawrence...

What welder have you got?

C
Christian Carter

Fill the inner edge up to the lip with a resin based filler.
That way no crud will get caught there and just putting the pressure washer there will clean is perfectly.

Good job!
Onno K

Cheers Bill.

Christian, I bought a 2nd hand Clarke 120E on ebay for £110 quid. In great condition too, and although I think that model is over 10 years old, it been as good as gold. But I should have take the advice given here to change the plastic torch liner for a metal one as soon as I got it.

Thanks Onno. It's a crazy design having that lip to collect all the crud the way it does. But as with much of these cars I suppose, they weren't expected to be around for so long. And to begin with anyway, the wings were so much cheaper. But at over 400 quid per wing, you've gotta protect them now, or hope for a non-fault accident that buys you a new one. lol.

Lawrence Slater

looks good Lawrence. I'd recommend drilling the biggest hole possible as the drain hole - since I took mine out to about 12mm small bits of gravel now drop out and don't block the hole.

I always use Chemical Metal - it seems to work pretty well for this sort of thing though it's a pain to sand.
Rob Armstrong

Cheers Rob.
Do you mean a 12mm slot or round hole for the drain? Mine are slightly larger than standard, but I think I am going to make them longer.

As for the filler, I haven't finished grinding yet, and I'm hoping I won't need too much filler. Not cheap that chemical metal. Wouldn't want to buy too much of that stuff.

Meanwhile it's all weather protected with coat of bonda primer.

And just in case someone asks. "Have they distorted so much that they no longer fit?" Luckily not. LOL.
Lawrence Slater

The lip is of course there to stiffen and give shape to the bottom of the wing. Without it the curve would just flap around and vibrate in the wind. It was a cheap-jack solution though and they clearly realised it was going to cause a rust-trap problem, hence the afterthought addition of the drainage holes. The lip was a cheap alternative replacing what would traditionally have been a wired edge, as forming a proper wired edge would have needed input from a skilled operator.

That Holts metal filler is what I use too. Yes its expensive, but you use so little just to skim over any irregularities or weld pin-holes that a small amount goes a long way. I wasn't suggesting any great thickness of the stuff; you should manage to get the shape pretty close before skimming.
Guy Weller

As Guy suggested earlier have a go at lead loading - easier as you can turn the wings so more is nearing horizontal.
Just need to solder paint area to prime, flux and add the old bar plumbers solder - get it to the plastic stage and move it about to fill. Leave it higher and rasp back.
I done it a few times and then added a much thinner layer of the metal filler to finish.

You like a challenge !

R.
richard boobier

Nice job Lawrence. Most of the repairs to my midget in the early 90's were "hand crafted". I tried to find sections of things of a similar shape and reinvent them. One rear wing lower section behind the wheel was part of a 2CV! I fabricated a lot of the OS inner wing, the bit with the triangular hole. Plenty of stiff card, a measuring stick and time. Very satisfying. Honestly, repro parts can take just as long to get to fit properly.

Clive Berry

Huh. I've heard it all now Clive. A Citroën Spridget. :). Hand crafted. Yeah, I like that. If anybody asks, I can say I shunned shop bought factory parts, in favour of hand crafted. I didn't do it to save money or because I'm tight, but because I preferred the fit of my hand made parts. So when I come to sell this Midget, I can put the price up. lol.

"just to skim over any irregularities or weld pin-holes" OK, time to fess up. I used soft focus, so you wouldn't see the grand canyons and pacific trenches in my welding. I'd need the lead of a church roof, and a 5Kg tub of filler just for one wing. :).

Lawrence Slater

I've been learning how to 'move metal' , mostly from Youtube videos. Never had a proper lesson in my life.

I carved a dimple into the centre of a tree stump and pounded a semi-circle of 1.2mm steel into the dimple until it had bellied out into a half-cone. Do this twice and you get a full cone. Made a new exhaust 'bullet' for a vintage car silencer.

The same will work for the front end of that Midget panel. Cut an oversize piece from sheet steel and pummel it with either a large ball-pein hammer or a fancy wood/plastic mallet. Suprisingly simple to do and very quick. Probably easier and quicker than cut-n-weld.


r thomas

That's brilliant r thomas. I wish you'd posted that before, I'd have had a go at that too. Makes my efforts look very crude by comparison. Not too sure about carving my trees, but I'm sure I could have found a suitable lump of wood.
Lawrence Slater

Made these 'silencer halfs' by bashing the edges over a bent piece of 1" pipe. It took a while to work out that you can shrink metal by making pleats in it (think Cornish Pasty) and then slowly squashing the pleats down, just as you would do if making something from pastry.
Look on youtube for "Tuck shrinking" or "Tucking fork" for inspiration. Careful how you type it in!


r thomas

Lawrence. You could easily make that from an offcut of Oak staircase post. A piece of 6" x 6" post would have been enough to do that job. Hollow it out with a wood chisel, run a disc cutter over it to cut out a bit more and then sand it smooth. If you bash into the hole you swell the steel sheet into a bowl shape in about 5 minutes.

The finished part...


r thomas

...and the original photo I worked from...



Honestly, I've no idea what I'm doing but it seems so easy that it is hard to fathom why I used to buy repair panels that were expensive but didn't fit any better.


r thomas

PS If anyone comes down to Llandow for a track day I can give them a demo. I live 1/2 mile from the track.
r thomas

Nice looking work Rob!
David Billington

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVaHEJxDH8

or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKcTU7NA5Lc

This ought to explain it. :o)
r thomas

How old are you Rob? Are you sure you aren't that Jaguar bodyshop specialist that I saw as a kid? I reckon you could get a job in a coachworks dept of prestige cars with that standard of workmanship. :).
Lawrence Slater

Nah, it wasn't me. I'm 44, I work at a job where I sit all day and press buttons and have only 9 working digits (left thumb is a dud). Not great qualifications! :o)

I've always worked on the principle that if someone else can do it then so can I, if I try hard enough, practise enough and do the research. Once you've seen it being done on Youtube you realise that steel is, after all, just a flexible and malleable material like Play-Doh or maybe sand on the beach. Anyone can make shapes with the last 2 so why not steel?

This guy is amazing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIPZUUPPTFk&list=ULBHmiS4B1RLo
r thomas

Yup, that's clever stuff. But it seems to me that you need skill and patience to do that. Even if I managed to develope the skill, I doubt I'd have the patience.
Lawrence Slater

That's pretty impressive! I note that he starts out with the flat sheet securely clamped. Which is something that I tend not to bother with, and then wonder why the sheet gets all deformed and wavey around the edges! And the other thing that took me a long time to realise is how lightly one uses the hammers. I always thought that steel was super-hard material that one had to bash the sh*t out of with a BFH to get it to change shape! Not true at all.
Guy Weller

Better to go for a hammer with a large, smooth face than a small one that will need lots of hits. Lignum Vitae hammers are good, as are large Oak ones. The hammers used by Cobblers often have large (1.5" dia) heads with about a 4" to 6" radius curve on them so thay are well worth getting hold of. If kept polished they'll give a nice smooth finish. Don't then use them for banging in nails.
You can make a good BFH from an old Oak staircase.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/hammers.jpg
r thomas

I've been repairing my front wings too - they do at least seem to be made out of reasonably thick steel compared to more modern components.


N.C. Nakorn

Oh - thought I'd uploaded 2 pics... only 2nd one has appeared above... here's the other:


N.C. Nakorn

r. Thomas, Thanks for linking to the MetalMan Sweden, I liked the louvre making technique though the shape of the louvres was a bit 'hot rod' for my taste; still, fine work.

Nick
N.C. Nakorn

This is great. If everyone starts repairing their own wings, eventually the prices of used wings will drop back, even if the new ones continue to cost a fortune.
Lawrence Slater

Not necessarily Lawrence. People will be selling rusted out wings as "easily repairable" and at a premium because of the fun and enjoyment value that can be had with tin snips, hammer and MIG!
Guy Weller

Rob,
Good work but you've been watching all the wrong videos! This is how you should do it! (awful quality recorded on someone's phone but you'll get the idea)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mdwAkWvWMw
Matt1275Bucks

Yup you're probably right Guy. But the way to defeat that is to repair your own rusted wing and not someone elses.

I never have found father ted that ammusing. That could have been funny, but they spoiled it by going to a daft extreme.
Lawrence Slater

If you don't have a sandbag handy you can always make compound curves by hammering over a dolly but, unless pre-annealed, curves made that way tend to straighten out when heated by welding - but you can get good results with minimal equipment. Here's a repair piece for my old Subaru:


N.C. Nakorn

This thread was discussed between 13/12/2013 and 18/12/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.