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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Headlights

There has been recent discussion about sealed beam vs halogen style lamps. What I don't remember being covered is the shape of the glass on the lamps that are available. I bought replacements for my '71 car about 6 years ago. When they arrived (from Moss) I realised that the glass was much flatter than the rusted out originals I was replacing. I decided to go with it for that car but the reflectors have now rusted and they need replacing again.

I also need some headlamps for my Frog and the flatter glass just wouldn't look right on the older car. Does anyone know if the more domed traditional glass lamps are available anywhere.
GuyW

https://www.europaspares.com/cibie-h4-headlamps-7-inch.html

I bought CIBIE 7' the EEG version, the above url is the UK version. Lots of light, much more than the "original" Lucas. They last for years already, no rust. They are not flat but curved. They lack the the Lucas and Made in England letters. I replaced all the cables and relays as well.

Flip
Flip Brühl

Guy
I put this up in the other thread
You might have missed it
They look ok to me from here

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-DOMED-LENS-CLASSIC-CAR-SEALED-BEAM-HEADLAMPS-headlightS-HALOGEN-H4-CONVERSION/362094278247?hash=item544e803667:g:XD4AAOSwRplZr~UM
William Revit

I fitted Wipac Quadoptics to my frog the thick end of 30 years ago. I'm happy with the light that they put out, they have a convex lens and I have no corrosion on the reflectors still.
Simon Wood

Guy..I bought some from Dave O'N during the torrential downpour which was Wroxhall:

Dave O'Neill 2, Derbyshire
Cibie/Valeo lamps were available fairly cheaply from Larkspeed.

I sold some sealed beams at Wroxall for the princely sum of £1 each. If anyone else wants some, let me know!

they were original domed glass units
HTH
Dave C
David Cox

I also have Cibie/Valeo headlamps from Europaspares. They look right and perform very well, with a strong, controlled beam pattern. They are better than the lights on my modern VW. They have been on the car for over ten years without any deterioration, and my car frequently stays outdoors in the rain (Lots of rain in Troon).

Previously I had Wipac Quadoptics, and I thought the beam control was poor. Anyway, the reflectors were rusty inside two years. I must have got a Friday batch!
Mike Howlett

..or get one of these..Marchal lamps are a match for the sun..as the picture shows!


David Cox

Thanks. I had purposefully avoided raising the issue of lighting brilliance as I thought that was well covered in that other recent thread and I already have relays fitted. Nevertheless, advice on the quality and longevity of lamps is appreciated!

This was specifically about the flat vs the domed lens shape. It does sound like domed ones are still readily available. I had thought they were NLA!. The badly corroded ones that I want to replace are Wipac branded and only slightly domed. i.e. The centre of the glass is only approx 1"forward of the edge of the chrome retaining rim when fitted. I don't have an original domed one to measure, but I am sure they werev more rounded than these.

These came from Moss with no indication that they weren't the correct OEM replacement item. I should have queried it at the time but they took a while to arrive and I needed to fit them immediately for an extended road trip.

Just to add, they are of course all domed, it's just that some are more domed than others!
GuyW

This part of one of my photos might give some idea of the dome on the Cibie/Valeo lights. They look fine to me, but then I'm not a stickler for originality.



Mike Howlett

Mike, I agree they probably look Ok on your car, but that is what I believe is the more modern, flatter style. I think, for the Frog at least, I would prefer the more domed variety.
GuyW

Dave C

Sorry, I didn't realise that was you.
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave O'N...don't be concerned, Dave....the weather wasn't conducive to standing around chatting!! It WAS good for rummaging around for free stuff in bins rapidly filling with rain water, though!
Dave
David Cox

Guy, mine were fitted new on 17 July 1973, and they look like this (sorry about the rushed sketch, but I've lost my camera at the moment). From the polished rim the dome is 1 1/8" approx.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

. . . and the sketch.


Nick and Cherry Scoop

Well that was a surprise! Whilst rummaging today I found I had a cardboard box with a pair of brand new Wipac headlamps still wrapped and packaged up with halogen bulbs. I have no idea when I bought them unless they came with all the other new parts that came in various boxes from the Frogeye PO.
Bad news they are what I have been calling flat, not domed, and identical to the rusted ones I was complaining about. But since they were there I have fitted them on the '71 Sprite as acceptable for that car. The glass is marked 7370. unlike Nick's 7316 so maybe this number identifies the amount of "dome".

I am still wanting lamps for the Frogeye and for that will certainly want the domed variety.



GuyW

Hard to tell but I think my Lucas H4 conversion lenses are possibly flatter than that or it might be the angle you took the photo at (camera not horizontally level to headlight, forgetting the curvature of Earth).
Nigel Atkins

Photo was not far off horizontal, maybe a little high. They look flatter when fitted in the car because of the effect of the chrome mount and bezel.

The domed ones are distinctly more rounded. Possibly not any higher in the centre, but the glass rises more steeply from the edge of the reflector.
GuyW

In that case Guy that may well be the same flatness/lack-of-dome/domed as my Lucas H4 conversion which may look flatter fitted in the car because of the effect of the chrome mount and bezel - same as a gravity ale that may or may not be off condition a little, or lot - flat as a witch's, er, boob.

Nigel Atkins

Guy,

Just noticed in the latest Practical Classics that arrived today (Dec edition) that 'Mountneyltd.com are remaking the original 7" and they state they are'brighter than OE lamps thanks to more modern bulbs and better reflectors'

I assume they mean filaments as the units are noted as sealed beams.

From £14.99 it states.

May be worth a look if you are still looking but quite a bit dearer than the Dave O'N deal noted above !

R.
richard b

Hi,

Putting this back-up... My sealed beam passed away recently, and I am looking at my different options : buy a new sealed beam, or switch to halogen.

I don't drive so often at night, and still have good eyes :) so "brightness"/lightning the World is not so much a criteria. I am more on the "genuine" side: I would like to keep the headlamp domed - as Guy, keep the "warm" color and have something which looks close to the genuine ones. Can be slightly different for reliability/durability, I am not a fanatic of genuine either...

What did you go for finally, Guy ?
Dave, do you still sell Cibie/Valeo ?

Cheers,
CH Hamon

If you replace only one sealed beam there may be a difference in emitted light between the new and used lights, depending on how the reflector has diminished on the remaining sealed beam you may notice the difference to the new replacement whilst driving.
Nigel Atkins

Cedric

I still have some (used) sealed beams - Lucas/Mazda - if you’re interested.
Dave O'Neill 2

Cedric, my interest last year was on getting some with the correct domed glass. In the end I got some 'Lucas' branded lamps that look right. They are not sealed beam as l want to keep the choice open as to which bulbs l fit. Probably halogen ones. On dark country lanes away from city lights you need good headlights to spot all the deer and badgers that share the roads.
GuyW

Guy, are you happy with your Lucas ? Any particular reason you chose this one and not the Cibie or Wipac ones ?

I am looking for non-sealed beam too: easier to find a bulb than a beam...

I thought Dave you hade some non-sealed ones for sale, sorry if I misunderstood that...

(Hopefully I never came across dears with the yellow GTV's beam back in French countryside ! Did with modern ones though....)
CH Hamon

I found some NOS Lucas sealed beams for the frog with the words Lucas on the glass. They looked virtually identical to the old pre-focus ones with the same dome. Lighting is perhaps not as bright as later modern units but is adequate. I am not one for night rallies anymore!!!
Bob Beaumont

My sealed beams are going FREE, if anyone wants to pay the cost of postage.

Alternatively, they can be collected from North Derbyshire, or I could drop them off on my travels. Next week is Northampton, Sheffield and Solihull. The following week Cork, via Holyhead and Dublin.
Dave O'Neill 2

After some reading, I would like to go for Cibie + relay, which is somewhere around 100+ nowdays... I've been told few times that I should concentrate first on making the midget reliable, before uprating it : so I will stay on sealed beam for the moment :)

Dave, is it too late to ask you to drop one in Northampton ? I might know someone who lives there :)
CH Hamon

I think I might know him, too.

Too late, I'm afraid. Northampton was yesterday.
Dave O'Neill 2

Probably best as I would have sold it on. :)

Cedric,
I can ask my mate if he has one in his store of junk, sorry I mean, spare parts if you want.
Nigel Atkins

No problem Dave, thank you again for proposing :)

Nigel, if it can free him up so space, i can volunteer ! Otherwise I will get one on the Bay

Thanks,
CH Hamon

Cedric,
I've asked.

Whatever lights you use you want to ensure all wires and connections including those to all switches and earths are clean, secure and protected that way you will get the most electric to the lights. And very probably not need relays, even if you did fit relays you would still want to check and clean as above. I've not got relays yet my H4 headlights are bright and my cheap modern made column stalk switch has not been burnt out (yet).
Nigel Atkins

Relays are only partly to get bright lights. In my mind the main justification is to protect delicate switch contacts, especially those in the stalk controlled column switch.
GuyW

What rather than cleaning the delicate switch contacts, perhaps every 12 years, yes I see your point. :)
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 07/10/2018 and 25/09/2019

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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