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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Help with quick shift bearing pls

Good afternoon fellow Spridgeters. I have detailed on here before an infuriating buzz/rattle I get at around 3-3500rpm through the gear lever on my Type 9 box. This corresponds to about 65-70 mph on the motorway... grrrrr!!!

It goes away if you apply pressure to the top of the gear knob. Tried driving without the gear knob, but still happened so can rule that out. So, thought I'd take a look at the saddle bush, in case it was brass or looked worn. It's black nylon / delrin type material, and it looked in good nick.

So, I pulled the quick shift apart, unfortunately no makers inscription so no idea if genuine quaife or knock off job. And the bearing did have slight vertical play between the inner / spherical part (inner race?) and the outer collar part. I guess that this play, at certain revs, could be the cause of the dreaded buzz. So....., any idea on what type of bearing this is, or where / who might be able to supply a new one? There's no reference on it. Image link below. Thanks.






M Weller

I'm not sure what the bearing is, but I have found this about the Quaife Quickshift:

"Please note: this is a competition all steel gear lever produced for ultimate strength. As a result, audible vibrations are transmitted through the lever at certain revs. Although suitable for road cars, this noise is a characteristic of this product and should be considered before purchasing."

http://www.burtonpower.com/quaife-quickshift-gear-lever-type-9-5-speed-ford-sierra-qs04.html

Jim
J Smith

Looks like a standard spherical bearing so if you measure the bore, OD, and width of the outer sleeve and ball I expect you'll find it here http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Bearings-Spherical-Plain-Bearings/c3_4545/index.html or at one of the other online bearing vendors.
David Billington

It's as Jim has put.

Loads of stuff about this in the Archives (some from me).

You can stop the rattle by replacing the lever with a Ford type and cutting it down to turn it into a quickshift as the Ford has the rubber bush/isolation thing on it (as the photo below of mine).

I've got two cheaper (not Quaife) shorten q/s levers spare as I bought my g/box conversion and had it installed by a "specialist expert" that didn't they all rattled. He tried packing them out with grease, that doesn't work (other than as perhaps a con).

Also having the red saddle will help with a firmer feel.-
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/HEAVY-DUTY-FORD-TYPE-9-GEARBOX-GEARSTICK-SADDLE-Sierra-kitcar-quaife-tran-x-MKF-/152444424172?hash=item237e654fec:g:~XwAAOSwG-1Wxttl



Nigel Atkins

Is this what you've got now (ignore dimensions)?


Nigel Atkins

I know I have posted on the BBS about this topic before, but have a look here (how I replaced my rattly spherical bearing with an igus polymer spherical bearing): http://www.machinebuilding.net/ap/a1821.htm

I suggest you phone igus and ask if they will send you a free sample, as postage makes one-offs a bit pricey ;-)
Jonathan Severn

A shortened lever isn't the same thing as a quick shift.
st

Ok thanks everybody for your comments, some good info there to check out.
I've already researched this subject fairly thougherly before thinking about replacing the bearing. Initially I was going down the modded bearing carrier route as per the escort boys on turbo sport, that involves tapping the bearing carrier and inserting two or three bolts and locknuts (or grub screws) and packing with grease while you're at it to effectively tighten up the bearing. My problem with this is twofold. First, if the bearing used in some of the quaife knock offs is a bit carp then why not just replace with a higher quality bearing? Second, to my non engineering brain, this 'fix' would surely take up lateral play and not vertical play?
Hence i thought enough head scratching I'll just ask the guys on the mgbbs.
Nigel i did think about cutting and shutting a Sierra lever but then i thought surely i can just make my existing one better... I like refurb/reuse!
I don't think mine is a quaife as the lip on the underside of the gearstick mounting plate isn't as deep as the quaife one on Burton's website. Could be a Raldes?
M Weller

st,
yes true but it gives the same sort of effect on a road going car and if my Type 9 gearbox is anything to go by quick shifting beats the box anyway.

Jonathan's bearing solution is better than my shortened Ford lever especially if you already have that 'cheap' q/s lever.

Another advantage the q/s lever is that the lever movement is less, you don't have to open the passenger's door to get reverse.

Of course you can covert a standard Ford lever to q/s for very little cost.

BTW - thank you Jonathan for the info, sorry forgot to put that before.
Nigel Atkins

Mike,
I'd just go with Jonathan's solution if your gear lever is the 'cheap' £45-£56 ebay type.

There are pro and cons to the different levers and solutions.

You can buy a £15 kit to adapt a standard Ford lever or as I've put do it yourself for next to nothing.

The two 'cheap' aftermarket q/s levers I had rattled from new but I did have a poor supplier.

I might get a couple of sets of those igus bearings and do real life test on the three levers I have and keep the one I like the most.

I could put up a photo of the two shortened 'cheap' q/s levers I have if you want to compare with yours.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, yes that would be useful. I'll take a pic of my setup and post it up, perhaps someone will recognise it.
M Weller

Mike,
I've got to do some of my household chores but when I've finished I will post the photo.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
Does your cheap method involve moving the pivot ball on the T9 lever and adding a spacer to the turret? I have a recollection that is one method, and believe that somewhere on this hard drive I have a write up or explanation of how to do this.

As I have posted here a few times before, my T9 lever is just the lower part below the Sierra lever damper. This results in a very short stubby gear knob to general hilarity, but it also acts as a "quick shift" with not much more than a gentle bit of pressure with the palm of the hand to select gears. At least I don't bang my knuckles on the radio! It was a temporary arrangement when I fitted the T9 some 16 or so years ago.

Somewhere I still have the spare Sierra lever that I was going to adapt to make a proper quick shift with, but after all this time I have sort of got used to my stubby knob.





GuyW

Here are some pics of my quick shift...




M Weller

Looks like you can only upload one pic at a time...



M Weller

And another showing the underside of the mounting plate, which looks shallower on mine than on the Quaife ones on Burtons.


M Weller

And one inside the car, I warn you it's not pretty...!!!



M Weller

Guy,
yes that's the method, obvious not mine but a link copied from somewhere or someone, it's in the other threads.

I think your lever would count as finger tip control, if your fingers have muscles, I'd break a nail. :)
Nigel Atkins

Mike,
yes one photo at a time.

Yours q/s looks like the 'cheap' ebay one to me (although I was charged £90 for the same but that's another story, the b''turds').

Your remote looks a tad shorter than mine and answers another question i was going to ask as the short remote can mean knuckle bashing in a Spridget.

I'd already measured so I might as well put in situ the gear lever, when in neutral, is 9.5" from the gear tunnel uprigh.t

I'll get my photos up just to confirm.

Could you do me a favour please and measure your lever from top circlip indent to very top of lever please.
Nigel Atkins

Two levers, one about 2" shorter than the other, both rattled from new.

The red saddle helped both of these to firm up.

More file photos to follow.

Mike do you have any slight difficulty selecting reverse and fifth?


Nigel Atkins

This shows standard black saddle and note how a professional "specialist expert" addresses the the gear lever turret aperture, typical bodger's "what they don't see won't hurt me".


Nigel Atkins

I thought I'd got more and better photos for you, but I was wrong, here shows, er, well you can see for yourself.

What I see is the the cuts and extra screw holes and the insulating tape hiding the intermittent fit reversing switch connectors - none of it pretty, I must look away and forget, again, though if I remember next time I'm under there to add some rust-converter to those cuts.


Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

I seem to recall reading years ago that the strengthener around the gearlever aperture was added as the aperture was prone to cracking otherwise so having that cut-out section won't help especially with the V notch corner. I have no idea when it was introduced ie in production or pre-production but recall the very early frogeyes only had the single triangular panel in the engine bay and no strengthening channel over the axle hump, I've only ever seen one and it must be a rare survivor.
David Billington

Nigel, thanks for pics. Mine is 193mm from top of upper circlip groove to top of lever. No I don't have any trouble going into reverse or 5th.
I'll order up a new bearing and go from there. Even though I already have a nylon saddle bush, do you think the red one from ebay would offer any improvement?
M Weller

When I moved the gear lever hole rearwards, I drilled out the spotwelds securing the flanged piece, and repositioned it. I then welded in a fillet piece at the resultant gap at the front to close it off again. I don't have a photo of the finished job, but in my typically rough DIY job, you can barely tell its been altered. This photo shows the flange roughly placed in its new position.


GuyW

David,
do I take it you mean the notch in my turret aperture?

How would I overcome this without skills, cross brace it with screwed in metal straps?

I noticed when Mike put his picture up that the aperture on mine lacked the upturned lip, I assume this was removed by you know who (he, the new partner himself) which now explains that mystery single small drop and run of red paint on the gearbox.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

I did as Guy did and removed the strengthener piece, filled in and moved the aperture as necessary and then put the strengthener back with plugs welds.
David Billington

Mike,
193mm, I wonder if your lever has been cut down too, I was trying to find the original length, I thought it was more than that.

Yes I do think the red saddle will offer improvement.

We won't mention improvements with better g/box oil. )
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, please do!
My T9 is due an oil change. What is your current best recommendation? Currently I am still on Comma oil, but I know its not the best.

GuyW

David,
I don't have a welder or the skills and surely now I also don't have the full strengthener and certainly not the upturned lip.

I didn't even know about this until now I thought the car and to some extent me, had got over the worst of the conmen's work.

I was just thinking of a band-aid of metal strip screwed across the corner.

Surely professional specialist experts wouldn't have done this unless their conversion allowed for it, perhaps through strengthening elsewhere(!)?
Nigel Atkins

Guy,
I wonder if you're teasing but in case not - I've yet to test Millers Oils CRX 75w-90 NT (which Opie Oil on just checking shows as no longer available(?)*) in gearbox or rear axle.

What I have in now and can recommend especially for cold weather use is Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90 Fully Synthetic.

You may also remember Eddie Cairnes recommending it.

* A while back I saw that Millers had relabeled and renamed their engine oil that I use and put the price up by 50%, but just for once I was ahead of the game and earlier got the old label at a reasonable price but I had to look around so it must have been going as old stock then.
Nigel Atkins

Not a wind up Nigel (not this time ;-) )

Thanks for the info.
GuyW

No problem Guy.

It's good to know I'm not the only one to forget things.

On consulting my records I see I've been using it to good effect for 4.5 years, so 4 winters with a refill after only the first 10 months (clutch fell apart).
Nigel Atkins

Igus polymer spherical on its way to me. If that works, great, if not or just a slight improvement then I'll grab another saddle bush too. Thanks everyone for your help.
M Weller

I'm going to igus today to collect some, as a local company I don't feel I should go for a free sample plus I want more than one as I have two levers thanks to the incompetence of the "specialist expert".

I might be able to test before the NEC or I might not.
Nigel Atkins

Neither do I Nigel, hence why I'm 12 quid out of pocket... If it sorts it it's money well spent in my view.
M Weller

Received the bearing today, looks kind of weird next to the standard metal bearing!

First thing I noticed is that the white inner race is really tight / stiff in the black outer race, which should hopefully reduce chances of rattles, but I was thinking it may make the gear change really firm?

Does anybody know if silicone spray would be safe to use with this type of bearing? Not even sure if that would smooth thing out a bit, but worth a try if it won't do something nasty to the plastics...


M Weller

Mike,
two things -

1) don't spray the bearing with anything its self lubricating, as you have a lever it will move easier when fitted in the car and under use.

I changed one of my q/s levers over today the difference is night and day, the cheap bearing has the lever floppy all over the place where as the igus fully supports the lever. (pity they have Germany written on them).

2) Didn't you see my two threads offering to pick up the bearings (which I did this afternoon) I'd have posted out at cost and the bearing would be less than the cost of a single.

Did you have any trouble getting the large circlip out, I borrowed some cheap circlip pliers but still ended up using precision screwdrivers as well - but my lever did include an unknown "specialist expert" bodge.
Nigel Atkins

Ok I'll forget the lube then...! No, I didn't see your threads, there we are, to be honest if it sorts that dreadful buzzing, I'd consider it cheap at twice the price.
Re the large circlip no problem, I just borrowed some bigger pliers as my diddy draper set could only manage the smaller external clip. Now there's an Xmas pressie idea from the kids or the cat!
M Weller

Mike,
neither pair of pliers I borrowed worked very well on that large circlip but possible not helped by the professional bodge that was done on my lever unknown to me.

All being well I'll test the lever in the car tomorrow and motorway test it to and from NEC the three days.

Mike could you do me a favour please and again measure your lever but this time from the small circlip to the bottom of the thread please - as I know the lever I've changed gears on is the original one and I'm sure I got my mate to shorten it (but there again I thought I had three q/s levers, perhaps one was swapped out).
Nigel Atkins

Morning Nigel, you must be a bit of a night owl - 01:06!!! Lights out by 10.30pm for me!

From the small (upper) circlip groove to the shoulder just below the threads (there is a 2mm threadless shank immediately below the threads that I haven't included) is 167mm.

But remember this is a knock off lever like a Raldes or similar, so not sure if genuine quaife is similar?

Be interested to hear what you think of the Igus bearing, as I doubt I'll get mine fitted back up till Sunday. Enjoy the NEC.
M Weller

Hi Mike,
sometimes that's earlier for me, not so often now thankfully.

Neither of mine are Quaife but, as quoted before, Burton Power say even of Quaife - "Please note: this is a competition all steel gear lever produced for ultimate strength. As a result, audible vibrations are transmitted through the lever at certain revs. Although suitable for road cars, this noise is a characteristic of this product and should be considered before purchasing.".

Thanks for measuring, that makes more sense to me now, mine is 135mm over the same points.

I'm a bit concerned about trying mine now as on the second lever I over stretch the small circlip with my cheap borrowed pliers (bad workman always blames the tools) and I wonder if I did similar with the first although both are holding.

If my nieghbour has some circlips I'll change them or I could take my Ford lever as well just in case and chance it.

I struggled with both circlips needing three hands to put the small one back on, hold down spring and collar and try to keep circlip open and get it slotted, I had to use a small vice to hold the lever with the second one, I must have been weak from fighting with the first lever, and the mess from the grease.

I should be able to get a short test drive in tonight before risking the motorway.
Nigel Atkins

I had a look at the current black nylon saddle bush tonight, and it has noticeable wear, so will order one of those red ones off the bay for a tenner. I look forward to buzz-free 3000rpm cruising...
M Weller

Fitted up the new bearing and saddle bush, felt good, sun out, time for a test drive... Started first crank having not been used for a few weeks, then hmmm what's that smell of unleaded? Fuel gushing out around front carb... Great! Think the short circa 5" piece of braided hose between the inline filter and carb is to blame, seems slightly too big ID, can anyone confirm if it should be 1/4" hose? Mine seems more like 7mm or bigger, difficult to get the clip tight enough.
M Weller

Mike,
yes it's 1/4" (6mm will fit).

The leak may be because the rubber is of piss-poor quality and the braiding hides this more.

I'd strongly recommend you forget the 1/4" and braided and go for modern Goodyear 6mm (x 3mm), sorry I can't find the number at the moment, buy a metre or so and replace all in the engine bay.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel have ordered up 3 feet of it, really chomping at the bit to get her out again, what with this nice sunny weather we're lucky enough to have down here at the moment.
M Weller

Sorry Mike but you've jumped the gun you have to get a metre as it's metric.

I've put new external circlips on the two q/s levers but I'll have to ask a mate if he'll test them in his Spridget as I can't select fifth gear with them because I bought my g/box conversion from, and had installed by, the same "specialist expert" that shortened the remote out of alignment.
Nigel Atkins

I meant a metre, what's 3" between friends...?! I reused the old circlips, seemed ok.
M Weller

Took it out for its first test run having replaced all the fuel hoses. No torrent of unleaded and more importantly no buzzing!!! A quiet quick shift at long last, and i think the shift quality has improved too, feels tighter. So it's polymer bearing and new saddle bush is the way to go if you have similar buzzing/resonance at 3-3.5k rpm. Treated the old girl to a new gaitor too from Moss, should tidy her up a bit.
Very pleased, thanks everybody for your help.
M Weller

Well done Mike.

Mine tizzes a little but I have the great joy and benefit of a "specialist expert" g/box shortening and conversion so I'd had to fit it with a black saddle to get it to go into 5th. That alone shows the black saddle has more slop and the red is much firmer.

The shape of the bottom and forks on the aftermarket lever are a different to the genuine Ford Sierra lever so I'll see where it marks up and file it when I get a chance.

Nigel Atkins

Mike, good to hear the igus bearing worked well for you too.
Jonathan Severn

Jonathan,
don't get me wrong I'm a fan of the igus bearing and thank you for bringing it to mine and our attention - I bought 5 of them and offered to get some for other but no one took me up on it and I'm not a part of the closed Facebook group (or Facebook) so can't directly offer there.

I'm also a big fan of the red saddles, as I put the fact that I can use the black saddle proves the slop in the black saddle compared to the red.
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2017 and 10/04/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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