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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - How do I put oil in my steering rack?

If I don't have a grease gun full of oil is there another easy way to get oil in my steering rack? What about jacking LH side of car up, taking the LH boot off and pooring it in. Will that work?
Greg H

Greg,
Try puttting the oil in a plastic squeezy bottle and attach a 6" length of windscreen washer hose to the bottle. You should then be able to inject oil directly into the bellows by just releasing the end that clips to the track rod. Those bottles that "her indoors" buys with liquid soap in that have a plunger top are ideal for this sort of thing. (I have one filled with oil for topping up carb dashpots)
Guy W

Thanks Guy, good suggestion.
Greg H

I just used an ordinary oil can and pushed the nozzle in via a loosened clamp, as Guy suggested. When I first filled it after rebuilding it was easy: just poured the oil in whilst the rack was vertical. Mind you, the 280 ml recommended really did fill it!!
David Cox

Yes you may need to re-seal the bellows part way through filling, and twiddle the steering from lock to lock a few times to pump the oil through the rack. If you don't reseal it it just pumps the oil back onto the floor when you turn the steering. Now, I wonder how I know that!
Guy W

I did wonder about that, whether the oil would sit in the middle of the rack or poor out the ends. Having a bucket of oil in the bellows on each end sounds like an oil leak waiting to happen on a nice driveway.

My rack appeared to have a creamy grey molycote style grease in it. Could an alternative like this be used? Perhaps not because if pumped in the nipple it won't run to the pinion on the other end.

Perhaps Icould remove the nipple and poor it in there, but no doubt it'll poor out well before it's all in.
Greg H

Has enyone ever gone to the bother of actually changing the oil at all or at any particular interval?

The book(haynes in my case) says "lubricate" every 30000 miles (36 months). It doesn't say drain and refill.

Frankly I don't bother changing or topping up, because I've never had a leak from the boots or the seals.

I'm on my 2nd rack. The first one was the original factory job, and I changed that back in about 1988. There didn't seem much if anything wrong with it, but I got a free brand new one from somebody, so I swapped them out just because I could. The original's in the loft somewhere I think.

The current one has done a lot of miles over the last 24 ish years, and seems fine too. So I'm guessing that if you never have a leak, they seem to be pretty robust items, -- if they're built properly.

Lawrence Slater

Mine developed a really annoying buzzing rattle. It was a puzzle working out where the noise was coming from as from inside the car it appeared to be coming from somewhere around the top of the steering column. For a long time I thought it was the plastic cowl vibrating on the dash and even tried filing bits off it to give better clearance. Eventually I discovered that the noise was coming from a worn right hand inner TRE bush. Replaced it with a complete reconditioned rack for about £45
Guy W

Sussex brand new, still only 114 - 122 quid. So I imagine a re-con is still about that price then Guy.

Does the cheapness reflect the fact that they aren't much in demand, because they last so long?
Lawrence Slater

Mine had a tight rack :) but when driven in my youth the coloumn to pinion was loose and I was a bit carefree about sorting it out because the bolt was tight. By the time I really looked at it both the pinion and coloumn were slogged out. New repro pinion only $140 but a second hand coloumn cost me $350. So a $600 fix, which if I'd sorted it back then wouldn't have cost me a cent. You learn.

Oh if only I lived in the UK ;) Instead of 400 pound it would have probably been 40.

Buiness proposition for you Lawrence. You export steering racks to Aus and I'll send new 'repro' bumpers back to the UK

I think it's built properly. If not I'll find out pretty quick.
Greg H

Its odd that prices are so high in Aus, when I thought that most repro parts came from China anyway. According to my globe that's virtually next door!
Guy W

Yes Guy, but they ship them half way round the world to the UK, then ship them to Australia!
Dave O'Neill2

I can send a box to the Phillipines from the UK for less than that, why is it so much more to OZ?

How long/wide/high is a rack, and how much does it weigh?
Lawrence Slater

It's about £75/80 to send a rack to OZ by air, plus circa £110 (no vat)for a new (not recon) rack.

Circa 290 Oz dollars. How does that stack up?

Probably cost a lot less to ship by sea freight, but take weeks.
Lawrence Slater

Yes $290 is a reasonable price, but the rack only needed a pinion and a new reproduction pinion was $140 so the rack was sorted ok. A new rack here would have been $940 - $1300. No car with that, just the rack.

The bit that hurt was the column because I think I looked around in the UK and it's no longer available. So I had to buy a second hand one and got it in Aus from a person who deals in Sprites but at $350 and it still needed cleaning up, horn wire replaced and painting.

There are a couple of parts suppliers in Aus but they aren't cheap. I think they probably bought their stock back when the exchange rate wasnt so good. It used to be 40p to the $1AUD so parts would have cost them a lot more.

Little second hand parts about because there werent many over here to start with and they dont rust out like in the UK, so the body stays good and cars last a lot longer.

An idea of numbers. RHD export MKIII total 1398, of which I think about 1000 were Aus cars. MKIII total number built is 100 246. So 1% went to Aus and if there were only 1000 cars 40 years ago then how much demand would there be for parts now?

In the last couple of years in Tas I think Ive seen about 2 Spridgets total on the road.

Yes Asia is next door and things from asia are very cheap but I suspect the midget parts in Aus has all come via the UK. I dont think the volumes would be high enough to make it worth while going direct to asia. I suspect the Aus suppliers place Uk orders for a large range of stuff but only small numbers of each.

Where I can, I buy from the UK because its a lot cheaper and a more comprehensive range of parts available. Aus suppliers only stock more common stuff, not everything. Service generally good but sometimes you get a cr*p part and its not worth posting back

Heres an example of the cost of parts in Aus. Lower wishbones 53 UK, with 80 postage but quite a bit of other stuff came with the order. So 186 total. In Aus $330 each, $660 plus post, about $30 so $690 (450) to my door. So thats an extra 250!!!

Windscreen UK 51. In Aus $458.(300) Thats just the glass, fitting is extra.

1275 Midget engine suit rebuild $1750 (1100).

S/h handbrake lever Aus $125, UK 20

I think the availability of parts in the Uk is exceptional, with good service and a good exchange rate so restoring my Midget couldnt be easier.

For the oil. I made up an oil bottle and tube into the grease nipple. T fit ok but the oil isnt running in too well though.



Greg H

Guy,
Your liquid soap bottle oil dispenser wheeze for the dashpots is pure genius. Why the hell didn't I think of that? My pistons will now be nice and clean too!
Matt1275Bucks

Yup that's quite a mark up for stuff from Aus.

That was quite a lot for that engine too. There's a complete 1275 engine on ebay at the moment for £750.

It still has the original engine number plate rivited on the block. If I didn't have a complete 1275 spare already, I might well have that.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-MIDGET-1275-ENGINE-/380511983607?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item58984817f7


Lawrence Slater

Thanks Matt. Yes, its a bit easier than trying to trickle in just the right amount from the spout of a gallon can! That's what I used to do, and end up with oil poured all down over the exhaust manifold.
Guy W

why would you use anything other than a cheap simple oil can?


David Smith

David,
Nothing wrong with a cheap simple oil can.

But it is not as cheap as a free recycled soap dispenser.
Guy W

Greg,

Being another aussie I definitely understand what you mean about the markup we have to pay to source things locally. My personal favourite is the door latch for a mk3 sprite. From the supplier you referenced before they are a princely $ 519.97

Your post about filling the rack was very timely as well as I am just rebuilding the front suspension of my car and hit the same stumbling block. I am more confused by it having a grease nipple on it but requiring oil?

I also looked into shipping an engine from the UK. The shipping part wasn't too bad. The real killer is our lovely customs and quarantine system. Where for individual shipments they charge you for every step of the process. Below is what I received from a local shipping company:

Please find the below costs for ex works LCL to Newcastle from the below address in Berkshire UK.

Export clearance, inland transport, documentation fee, handling & ocean freight to Sydney port:
GBP 190.00

Port & depot handling charges in Sydney:
AUD 180.50 + gst

Customs Clearance fee:
AUD 150.00 + gst

HTM post & petties fee:
AUD 25.00 + gst

Delivery to Newcastle for you to unload from flat bed truck:
AUD 132.00 + gst (includes current fuel surcharge of 10%)

Since the value is under AUD 1000.00 there will be no customs duty & taxes however customs may ask for proof of purchase eg bank statements or pay pal receipt to confirm it is under AUD 1000.00
Unfortunately 2nd hand engine will attract a Quarantine inspection which incur the below costs.

Delivery to Quarantine depot:
AUD 75.00 + gst

Quarantine inspection fee:
AUD 139.00 minimum for ½ hour after this a fee of AUD 80.00/half hour applies

Quarantine processing fee:
AUD 35.00 + gst

Quarantine depot fee:
AUD 75.00 + gst

Steam Cleaning if required:
AUD 165.00 + gst for 1 hour after this a fee of AUD 110.00/hr + gst applies

Please ensure your supplier uses a plastic pallet or ISPM15 treated timber pallet which is free of bark otherwise quarantine will want to fumigate the pallet at another cost of approx. AUD 330.00 + gst.

Mitch
M Leask

For a country full of bugs and beasties that want to kill you, Australia does seem to be really hot about quarantine!
Similar I suppose to the Californians obsession with fruit. I remember being somewhat puzzled at being stopped at the Nevada-California State border a few years ago to be asked "you guys carrying any fruit?" I suspect if I'd said that I had three Uzis and a couple of Kalashnikovs instead of a rather bitter orange, which I think we'd bought in California three days before, all would have been fine. Apparently, sarcasm is not a concept understood by the law enforcement community in the good old US of A!
Matt1275Bucks

So Mitch I guess you didn't buy it then. Most things are good buying but there's a few things which are still no go.

Matt we may have some nasty critters but they all get along together and keep each other in check. It's the imports which are the problem. Over the years some of our decendants in their attempt to make it like their homeland decided to bring stuff in like rabbits and foxes. Obviously a rabbit was easier to shoot than a bouncing kangaroo and for the gentry a possum hunt just isn't the same as a fox. Only 50 years ago a cane toad was imported to eat a beetle in the cane sugar, but it's taken over the top half of the country and killed everything but the beetle.

Tassie is even worse for quarintine. You can't come in here from the mainland with any fruit because we're the only state without the fruit fly.

Didn't have a squeegy bottle but got my oil in with a bottle as a funnel. A few cycles of the rack got most of it in. left it overnight and it was done.




Greg H

Mitch / Greg, what I don't understand is why a s/hand engine would need quarantine when a s/hand diff unit doesn't? I've shipped several diffs down under in the past year or two with no problems at all
David Smith

I think if you ask a Customs agent they say everything, just in case, but if it just posted in a safe box and it doesn't say anything threatening they won't care.
Greg H

David,

As strange as it seems there seems to be a difference as to how it is shipped. Things that can be sent by airmail seem to get an easier run through customs than things that come by ship. It doesn't make a shred of sense but we don't get much say about it either.
M Leask

Greg,
Very clean engine bay!
I get the single continent issues about importing non native animals and diseases. We got Mixi back from Aus again so as an island nation we too should have taken more care!

Back on topic, did you just unscrew the plug in the rack and squeeze your plastic tubing in and then pour a certain quantity of oil in. I've been meaning to do my rack oil for ages but always put it off as too messy to contemplate! I suspect it needs it as the steering with the wheels of the ground feels a little metallic. How much should I be topping up by?
Matt1275Bucks

Matt one thing about a car that doesn't get driven, it doesn't get dirty. That rusty nut will have to go. That one's probably imported.

I don't know Mixi. But you should be so lucky lucky lucky, you've got Kyle. ;)

Yes unscrewed the plug. Hose was actually 8mm OD and so I had to trim the end down a bit, but this meant it had a tapered end so sealed nicely.

As for the oil volume I looked in my new handbook but nothing in there at all it :( but I did a search of the archive and someone said 280ml. David above also said the same so must be write. Probably a self perpetuating rumour.
Greg H

M Leask,

A grease nipple might better be called a lubricant nipple as they're not restricted to grease. Called Zerk fittings in the US IIRC after Mr Zerk who invented them, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grease_fitting . My Bridgeport milling machine has a number of them and are intended for oil not grease. They help keep out dirt and allow lubricant to be injected under pressure if required which is useful in the case of the Bridgeport but with the rack very little pressure is likely to be required.
David Billington

WSM says 10 fl oz (.28L) of oil when rebuilding.

It also says to lubricate with 10 strokes of gun filled with 'lubricant' at regular intervals.
Dave O'Neill2

Greg,
Handbook was for new cars so factory would have pre-filled the steering leaving the owner just follow servicing requirements :)

page 61, Every 12,000 miles or 12 months - steering Rack (early cars with an oil nipple fitted) Give 10 strokes with an oil gun

page 62, in the recommended lubricants table it shows to use either SAE 90 or 80 hypoid oil depending on temp

I noticed the rusty nut and knew it would be replaced, but that copper pipe ;)

Nigel Atkins

Was grease used in later cars (like a '74)? I seem to recall that in my manual it says to put 10-12 strokes with a "lubricant" gun - not oil or grease but lubricant, and in another place it mentions putting oil in earlier racks and 1/2-3/4 oz. grease in later ones.
Jack Orkin

Nigel it's not a copper pipe, but the orginal steel one. There was a very small amout of ferrous oxide on it which is what gave it the coppery appearance. All sorted now.

I have my next challenge in front of me, the diff. :(


Greg H

Jack,
have a look at my post just before yours for grease change over point

Greg,
I should have know better, the copper pipe would have been shined up :) but that p-clip is fuzzed up in the first photo, I can't tell if you've replaced it in the second photo with my monitor

floor looks dirty though :D
Nigel Atkins

Jack,
I beg your pardon I must have deleted that bit from my previous post

for cars with the later Triumph type steering rack the Handbook has -

'Every 30,000 miles or 36 months
Steering Rack (later cars -from Car No. G-AN5-114643). Lubricate steering rack- It is advisable to entrust this work to your Distributor or Dealer'
Nigel Atkins

The clip in the first pic has gone white. The car was outside for a couple of months last winter and any new metal started to oxodise. I cleaned it up for the second pic, and it's a good thing I did. The floor will be getting a bit dirtier soon because I have to clean that diff housing next. Perhaps I'll do it n the laundry sink to keep the floor clean.

So if I don't drive my car in the next 12 months do I still have to put more oil in the steering rack? Oil in the 60's must have been biodegradable :P


Greg H

The clip in the first pic has gone white. The car was outside for a couple of months last winter and any new metal started to oxodise. I cleaned it up for the second pic, and it's a good thing I did. The floor will be getting a bit dirtier soon because I have to clean that diff housing next. Perhaps I'll do it n the laundry sink to keep the floor clean.


Greg H

Yes, Nigel, I saw that. Unfortunately, my dealer is no longer around for me to entrust it to! :) And, I'm not sure how much I trust myself and its sometimes difficult to interpret what they're trying to say in the manuals. In the past, I have replaced the smaller plug in the top of the rack with a Zerk fitting and pumped grease into it. It still seems to work fine but just wanted to make sure I haven't made a catastrophic mistake!
Jack Orkin

oil, grease -where does it go? I can see where on the engine, g/box and diff but all those grease nipples at the front and now the steering
Nigel Atkins

Greg

It looks like your brake shoes are on the wrong way.
Dave O'Neill2

Dave, so are they the wrong way around? I thought they were meant to have the leading edge with the chamfer so they don't grab. Photo is RHS.


Greg H

Greg,

From your part ofthe world:

http://www.spriteparts.com.au/tech/gillspeed_files/12.pdf




Doug Plumb

Thanks Doug. If it comes from Aus then it must be right. Gillspeed was a good little business but it's no longer in business.

I'll have to swap them around then but I'm surprised there's no chamfer on the leading edge.
Greg H

Hi Greg,
No chamfer needed as the shoes are sliding, as opposed to pinned. The way yours are currently fitted do need a chamfer, because there is no cut back leading edge. i.e. they are on backwards.

Read all about it here.
http://www.engineeringinspiration.co.uk/drumbrakes.html
Lawrence Slater

Interesting read Lawrence. I pondered over which way they went and ended up searching the archive for some help. I was pretty sure I found a post on it and put them on the way the post said. I now wonder if someone else also has them on backwoods.

Tommorrow nights job.
Greg H

>>Tommorrow nights job.<<

when and how many

he, he, he
Nigel Atkins

Going out for tea, will be sure to get back early, say 8pm. Frig about for one first side with springs and lever. 25min. Second side should be say 15min. Done by 9pm. I suppose you'll want photos at 10am your time?

If I'm feeling enthusiastic I could also clean and paint LHS rear damper, clean diff. Who am I kidding. Just the brakes would be good.

Best I go downstairs now and scope it out. I'll spend all day tommorrow psyching myself up for it.
Greg H

Ok confused about how it goes together. Going by the above diagram for the LHS it shows the spring end not going through the handbrake lever. Surely the end goes through the end in the handbrake lever arm to lock it in place?

Also if I do it this way I can't get the spring through the hole because with the thin slot the arm doesn't move around enough to get the spring through the arm. The spring also apears to foul the centre part of the arm.

Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?


Greg H

Greg,
I don't think the spring actually goes through that hole in the handbrake lever arm. The spring just presses against the side of the lever as in the Spriteparts drawing. If the spring went through the hole it would restrict movement of the lever. I believe that the hole is a relict feature from earlier BMC models at a a time when a split pin was used there.

LOL - talk about topic drift! I hadn't looked at this thread again as I thought that all that could be said about putting oil in a steering rack had been said - several times over! Should have realised things had strayed a bit!
Guy W

Thanks Guy, that'll make it a lot easier. I could only get the spring through the hole with the shoes the wrong way around. I suspect this is why they ended up the way they did. I might be back on schedule. :)
Greg H

Greg, as Guy says, that hole must have served some extinct purpose.

You have it right.

Just for posterity, here's the top spring and hand brake lever in position.


Lawrence Slater

Here is a photo I saved from this forum - sorry but I didnt record the poster - which shows the spring position.

HTH


Doug Plumb

Well it was very easy, only 20 min for both sides. Ahead of schedule.

A lot easier when you're doing it the right way. Thanks for the assistance, especially you Lawrence, you've gone to a bit of effort. Pity the detail is hidden in a steering rack thread.

Just my diff to sort now, oh, and the wiper arms ;)




Greg H

Cut and paste Greg.

Start a new thread, with the title "rear brake shoe fitting", and copy the relevent posts into it.

Voila, Fanny's yer auntie.
Lawrence Slater

no worries Gov, I'll get onto it.
Greg H

This thread was discussed between 23/01/2013 and 30/01/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.