MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Indicator Not Stopping On

After purchasing a 1975 midget several weeks ago I have come across several problems and trying to get them sorted one by one.

One annoying problem is the left turn indicator will not stay on and just flicks back to the off position, if the indicator stalk is held manually up, the indicator works ok.

I just wondered if anyone had any ideas or is it buy a complete new indicator and wiring?

Tim Lynam

Tim
Sounds like the ring which controls the self canceling part of the indicator needs some adjustment. If you remove the cowling, behind the steering wheel there is a horse shoe shaped ring which slides over the steering column. This ring has a raised section which contacts 2 fingers of the indicator switch, which when the wheel returns to the straight ahead positon, cancels the indicator. This needs to point to the centre of the inicator switch with the wheel straight ahead. It can be adjusted just by twisting it around the column
Follow this link, it is item 73 that I refer to.

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1362#76

I am sure if you have a look, the above will make more sense.
A second thing to check is the wire contact which moves when the switch is operated, this should slide over a rivet to make the electrical contact, it is possible that the wire finger is not sliding over the rivet properly, and ay need a bit of a clean/adjustment.

Good luck
Alan
A Pritchett

Thanks Alan, for the explanation, I will have a look and see if that sorts the problem, much appreciated.

Tim Lynam

It appears that the problem with the indicator not stopping on, is down to a faulty indicator switch, hopefully someone will be able to confirm, but as shown on the picture below, at the top of the switch is an "L" shaped copper tab. But at the opposite end of the switch it looks like one may have snapped off.

I may be wrong but it looks as though there should be two L shaped copper tab/connectors, one at the top and one at the bottom, could anyone please confirm?

Alan suggested the self cancelling part of the indicator switch, I have ruled that out as when the switch is removed from the steering column, it still only stays on when choosing the right hand indicator, so it may be as above or something else broken on the switch.





Tim Lynam

Tim,
I cannot tell you whether it should have a second L shaped copper tag or not. But I think the part that makes the connection and also "clicks" the lever into the left and the right positions is a springy piece of wire sandwiched down between the moving part of the indicator switch and the main body of the unit. If you move the indicator stalk around you should see two prongs of spring steel wire that move over contact "buttons" down between the moving and the fixed part.
Guy

Thanks Guy, the two springy pieces of wire are there and look OK, but for some reason the indicator stalk does not appear to click into its on position when pushed up, I cannot see what makes the click on the working "right turn" on the switch.
Tim Lynam

Unfortunately the photo is too out of focus to tell but could the other L shaped copper tab be underneath on the bottom part and is that a spring or raise in casting under it

To stay on I’d have thought that it must have a lock up assembly that pulls against a spring so that a lever/arm/tip must knock it off when in contact with the column clip

Be careful with this unit as modern unit may not be of such good quality even at £50 new try to repair this one if you can and if get a good second hand unit or poor s/h unit and make one good one out of two
Nigel Atkins

The "L" is part of the headlamp action (actually the main "blue" feed)

The left / right indicator click/hold is I think controlled by a sprung ball bearing in the fixed plastic case immediately below where the stalk joins the main mechanism in your photo. There's a metal clip over the end.

Its possible that plastic has worn such there is no longer sufficient to hold in the left position - or something has got fluff/junk in it.

I think I've got an old one in the garage but its too late/cold to get it and take pictures....

Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

yeap what Dean's put is beginning to ring bells

cleaning and/or lubbing is the answer to most servicing and many repairs (might not need lubbing here though)

a (breath) blow and small soft brush to clean out grit/crud/fluff wont hurt

might sound daft but if you have a magnifying glass it can help to see more 'hidden' stuff (or that might just be because of my eyes)

and if you have any a spray with electrical contact cleaner (a can is always a handy thing to keep)

I had an old indicator stalk switch and it's new replacement that both used to smoke when they were operated a little bit of fine filing on the new unit got it working but it was literally a roughly finished component
Nigel Atkins

Dean's mention of sprung ball bearings rings bells with me. I agree that the indicator contact is most likely a piece of sprung wire, but isn't the switch held "on" by a sprung ball in a detent? If so, could one of the balls have escaped during a PO's attention? I have taken one of these things to bits years ago, but the memory of detail is hazy. I do remember that it's no joke trying to get it all back together again.
Mike Howlett

I have a spare broken one in my box of bits... I think from memory... the plastic surround (under the cowling) breaks... and stops it from staying on.... I replaced the whole unit with a spare on ebay... just keep a look out... or speak to andy jennings... he'll sort you out for a tenner

In the meantime... it works... so just hold it on!

Mine doesn't self cancel... can't work out why cos the cancelling ring is postiioned just right... I just live with it.
C L Carter

Ok it look like a small nylon piece rather than a ball bearing. You just have to drift out the roll pin that holds the stalk to get to it....

(Anything else I can do that doesn't involve writing the document I'm supposed to be working on ?!)




Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Ah ha.

So that's why you drove round half of London on the bridges tour, with your indicator on then Christian? :)
Lawrence Slater

Yep!

Who needs self cancelling indicators when you've got Lawrence waving crazy hand signals at you!

C
C L Carter

:)
Lawrence Slater

C L Carter mentions the self cancelling not working. Mine didn't either, I think the plastic arms that the metal horseshoe comes round to push against to turn the indicators off get weak or bendy over time so can't transmit the motion. On advice from a knowledgable friend I stretched a really thin elastic band around the two arms, holding them towards each other to give them a hand. It worked a treat. But be careful not to get the elastic band between the dipswitch contacts as I did or you'll have a new fault and will need to strip it down again.

Dave
D Spencer

Thanks for the replies, especially the in focus picture from Dean, unlike mine which I struggled to photograph whilst still connected to the car, as I did not fancy un coupling the wiring connector.

I will give it a go and see if I can mend, otherwise its look out on Ebay or just hold the indicator whilst turning, which is a pain.

Tim Lynam

Tim just to remind you

be careful with this unit as a modern unit may not be of such good quality even at £50

becare but have a go at repairing the one you have if you can

or possibly consider getting a good second hand unit or a poor s/h unit and making one good one out of two

there are different units so make sure you get the correct one

yours should be 'Indicator stalk- No horn 37H8050' with you can get from MGOC/Moss etc.

but never assume that what's fitted to your car is the original or "correct" part or is fitted correctly even if it works

or this eBay a Lucas unit but probably made abroad

I just missed out on the last NOS Lucas when I was looking, I shouls have bought it for for future use, oh well, I'll be quicker next time

good luck with it
Nigel Atkins

For second-hand try Andy Jennings http://www.mgcars.org.uk/andyjennings/ He has a huge number of old parts. Go to the list for Midget, Interior and you will see that he has stalk controls for £12 if the list is up to date. Best bet is to ring him. Do make sure you know what you want - year of car, type of switch as Nigel said. And ask him directly if the switch has been tested. No point buying one that isn't working properly.
Mike Howlett

just noticed I didn't put the link for new Lucas switch - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330383985296?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Nigel Atkins

I have just spent half an hour trying to take the roll pin out that holds the indicator stalk without success, so for £12 that sounds like a bargain, if they can supply the stalk with horn.

Nigel suggested No Horn type, but mine definitely has the horn on the stalk, I do not know if this is unusual for a car built Nov/Dec 1974?

Cheers Nigel for the link.
Tim Lynam

Tim

whilst I'm looking that up

on your car does the horn actually work off the stork and not the steering wheel centre push then ?
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,

The horn definitely works off the indicator stalk, about as loud as a mouse squealing, but it works.

Tim Lynam

Tim,
what with all the various models and changes during production plus the changes then made by previous owners some things are a little grey about what parts where

the horn push was a favourite for slightly moving position and being modified by owners when it stopped working

when ordering parts or components apart from checking that what you already have fitted you also need to cross-reference any sources of information for errors or discrepancies – below is a perfect example, to save you looking it’s with Moss on this occasion but it can be from word of mouth, parts catalogues, forums ect.

Original Sprite & Midget The Restorer’s Guide by Terry Horler –
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906133336

Page 124, horn moved from steering wheel boss to column stalk (at change of stalk)

Page 135, horn push button revised - GAN6- 157153 (Jan 75)

Page 136, horn switch moved to indicator stalk – GAN6-200001 (Aug 77)


MGOC Spares
http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/MGOC_SPARES_HORN___SWITCHES___WIRING__MIDGET__154.html

part 35 - Indicator stalk- With horn BHA4948 (More - 1970-71)

part 36 - Indicator stalk- No horn 37H8050 (More – 1971-78)


Moss
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1362

part 70 - 37H8050 - Switch (indicator headlamp dip & headlamp flas - Late 1275 & 1500 (from G-AN5-105501; to G-AN6-200000) (note end connector)

part 72 - ADU1021 - Switch (indicator headlamp dip-flash & horn) - Late 1275 & 1500 (G-AN5-105501 on; G-AN6) (note end connector) (also note error)


Brown & Gammon
http://www.ukmgparts.com/browse.aspx?CID=a50709b2-a969-4cce-a883-ab5908543e80&SID=5373d02f-97b8-4d75-9f3e-9bd97b79b16f

BHA4948 - Switch Ind & Horn MGB Midget

37H8050 - Switch Indicator Dip & Flash

AUD1021 - Indicator Switch 78> Mid1500


Sussex Classic Mg Car Parts
http://www.sussexclassiccar.co.uk/shop_factory_hazel/index1.html

BHA4948 - Indicator Switch - With Horn Push - MGB + Midget

37H8050 - Indicator Switch - Horn Push On Steering Wheel - MGB + Midget

AUD1021 - Indicator Stalk - 1978 Onwards GAN6-200001 On - Midget

ETA: just posted same time as you - sounds like bad connection or horn not wired correctly
Nigel Atkins

Horns need a good electric supply so could be either; bad connection at switch,
or the wiring or its connections (bullets behind rad grille are favorite),
or horns or their connections

just inspecting all and cleaning all up can make a difference including fuse box connections and fuse all want to be clean, secure and protected

once working the twin horns are quite loud and for such a small car
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel for all the information.
Tim Lynam

Regarding cleaning the small detent plunger, I found that electrical contact cleaner made this too clean and the plastic plunger immediately started sticking in the plastic housing. I removed the metal clip, dismantled the sprung plunger and used a small amount of dry lubricant (powdered graphite, normally used for locks etc). This made it much smoother in operation.

If you get a replacement switch unit (new or second-hand) and the large multi-way plug does not match the plug in the wiring loom, you can cut off the plug and crimp some ordinary bullet connectors onto the individual cables. (Been there, done that.)

Jonathan
Jonathan Severn

No problem, more help from Jonothan too

if the horn is connected by a bullet rather the connector block then that may suggest alterations by a previous and even if the two connectors marry up one could have be altered or the wiring loom replaced - not that it matters as long as you get it working well enough not only to keep the MoT tester happy but also to sound loudly in an emergency

but you've no need to worry about originality too much with a wooden dash :)

I think we established yours was a very early R/B as it had just the one jacking point per side IIRC

if you want you could add your Vehicle profile to view that way you don't need to remember to put the details all the time (some wont look at it mind) and always nice to see a photo
Nigel Atkins

Yes not too worried about originality, as long as it works and looks ok, yes will get larger tyres sorted one day when finances allow, but enough been said on that one.

I had filled in vehicle profile but for some reason it does not show up, I must have missed something somewhere.
Tim Lynam

Vehicle Profile now sorted, found the button to select to show.
Tim Lynam

yeap anyone little thing mastered well done

that switch will suddenly drop into place working now as you're on a roll

book, service, drive, you'll see it all start to come together

before you know it you'll be the other side of summer thinking yeah I'll go for a ride as we do get the odd days in winter when we don't want to

then Cadbury Cream Eggs on are sale again . . .
Nigel Atkins

Too lazy to read all above, but indicator stalks not staying on is often down to the attached wire insulation losing it's flexibility through age. Because the wire has to move when left or right is indicated, stiff wire can prevent the detent holding. This is also a common reason for headlamp failures as the wire either breaks or the brass attachment breaks.
Allan Reeling

Tim,
I don't know if you got sorted but if not I've just odered below, good price (£34.99 inc P&P) and the chap assures me he's been selling them for years and no returns (I can only take his work fot it)

this is 37H8050 with horn not on stalk - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-LUCAS-SQB118-Indicator-Switch-MGB-MG-Midget-1970-1978-/200704965121?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ebaf2ba01
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel,

At £35 it would sort the problem nicely, but for some reason my faulty one has different connectors to the ones advertised on Ebay (as per photo) and I have had no joy from Andy Jennings up to yet and I do not fancy cutting and joining all the wires individually, oh well will just keep on looking.


Tim Lynam

Tim,
that switch looks a bit fresh to be original so as a replacement who knows what was available at the time (I expect someone will now come up with the answer to that!)

it's certainly confusing about the various switches that were available and are available now

just a warning here, when looking for any parts or components you have to allow for cataloguing errors – typos, wrong photos or illustrations, inaccurate listing, etc.

I’ve never seen one so I don’t if it’s correct but that connector plug looks like the illustration (that could be wrong) for the later 1500s AUD1021 with someone else on this thread was looking for and said wasn’t available but MGB Hive have it listed as item 16 here (also note typo for item 15) - http://www.mgbhive.co.uk/switches___horns.html

I’d get confirmation before ordering thought by sending them your photo

BTW not being critical just trying to help – that photo would have been better if you hadn’t added the white paper towel as it’s behind a black switch so opposite end of the contrast and perhaps switch off the light and let the camera flash and auto settings do the work for you :)
Nigel Atkins

Yes Nigel looks like you are correct, after trying to purchase either a new or old replacement, the part number has been confirmed as ADU1021, but it looks like it's no longer available after trying several suppliers.

But if anyone has one tucked away gathering dust in their garage, I would be more than welcome to purchase.

As for the photo, the comments are more than welcome as I was surprised at the poor quality, especially after seeing the crystal clear picture of Dean Smith's switch.
Tim Lynam

Tim,
I only recently learnt this from a thread on here, someone was looking for a switch and it turned out to be AUD1021 which was fitted to the later R/B cars only

the switch fitted to my car has a end piece that depresses so probably it is incorrect for my car, I'll find out more when I put the replacement on

as for the photos I learnt very little from my attempts with SLR but I do know with modern cameras if the lighting is insuffiecent the image will be soft (focus)

looks like you might be getting the solder gun out
Nigel Atkins

Tim,

The chap who Nigel was referring to as having been looking for a ADU1021 was myself.

That particular switch was only fitted to the last of the 1500s (from GAN 200001 >) and are not available new.

After a lot of searching and a tip-off from someone on this forum, a s/h one turned up on e-bay and I duly bought it.

The seller was an outfit in Sheffield called "The Spitfire Graveyard". They have a website if you care to google on that name. Chances are that they may have another one on their shelves.

Dave
D MATTHEWS

Blimey I almost put that GAN number but can't be sure I'd remembered right

glad you got it Dave, nice tip off as I can't remember seeing it posted (probably wasn't)

you'd think there'd be more cross over of parts with the other BL marques, it would be handy if there was as it would provided more suppliers and no doubt more different prices for the same part

my previous new troublesome stalk was for a Triumph but that was 5 years ago now so hopefully things have improved

just noticed in my previuos post I put 'a end' a typo of course I meant an end
Nigel Atkins

Thanks Dave,

I have found the site and emailed them to see if they can supply a ADU1021.

After finally managing to remove the metal retaining pin I have found the offending part which is just a tiny white plastic part held by a clip and spring, which looks like one side has worn away as in the photo, sorry Nigel another out of focus photo, will have to get to grips with the camera!

So I am hunting for either the tiny white plastic part or the full indicator.

Thanks for all the help.








Tim Lynam

Tim, have you ever seen, I mean heard, the Specsavers adverts :)

you’ve done well to strip the switch down

looks like you may need to cannibalise another non-working switch or could you perhaps fashion a replacement part
Nigel Atkins

I have just bought a new pair of glasses!

It's my camera, it works great on normal photos but does not like close up pictures, but never mind you get the idea of the problem, just got to find someone with an old knackered switch that I can cannibalise.

It looks like this switch is now a rare item, tried another couple of places today but no joy.

Tim Lynam

Tim, have you got a Macro button on the camera? It allows you to focus up close. Mine is in most modes including programmed and full manual. But there should be one in Auto, if anywhere.
Lawrence Slater

Tim,
there’s a chap on here Rod (R W Bowers) that could perhaps advise you on the late indicator switch

see his post on the thread - Another mystery wire
Nigel Atkins

Tim,
I've cross posted Rod's reply in case you might miss it

>>Re Tim's problem I had a quick look at this thread.

The reason I have "relayed" everything on my car is to take the current load off the switches thereby lowering the heat generated across the contacts and sparking due to switching. It is the heat which destroys the switches.

I rebuilt my flasher switch assembly after it partially disintegrated during removal of the steering column. I had to fabricate an aluminium cover to hold the tension spring in place and fix this with very small self tappers and epoxy.

In the process I derated the spring because the original was far too stiff and was partially to blame for the failure. the result is better than new and, I suspect better than any switch available now.
When reassembling use some contact grease or similar to reduce friction.

While your at it check all the solder joints for "dry joint" syndrome, easily fixed just resolder them.<<
Nigel Atkins

Cheers Nigel,

Hopefully a kind person at Lucas is helping me out with the small white plastic "bit" that is causing the issue, hopefully in a couple of days, fingers crossed, the problem may be sorted.
Tim Lynam

What Lucas still exist in thev UK, I thought Coleshill closed down

once you'd finished yours you can have a look and repair my present one when it's off the car :)
Nigel Atkins

Yes Lucas still exists at Coleshill.

Today the postman has arrived, I got home tonight and like a kid at Christmas I opened the package and guess what, wrong part.

Oh well back to the drawing board and checking Ebay each day.

I will gladly look at yours Nigel when this ones fixed, only problem is it may be a year or two before this ones fixed!

Tim Lynam

Tim,
I know how you feel with these things one step forward and two back (or sometimes it feels like three of four steps back)

at least your part lasted a few years rather than months

how about Rod's idea of derating the spring
Nigel Atkins

The problem lies with the tiny white plastic part which appears to have smoothed over on one side removing the little notch which keeps the indicator on.

Reducing the strength on the spring may help once the new part is fitted, but the tiny white piece of plastic held in place under tension by the spring requires replacing.

Tim Lynam

This thread was discussed between 01/02/2012 and 23/02/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.