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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Insurance valuations

Hi all, My insurance renewal has come through and I realised its about time a had an agreed valuation policy. How do I get my Frog assessed & Valued as its modified in various ways.

Thanks
Mark
Mark M

Mark,
I'm surprised your policy doesn't have agreed valuation cover.

I'm with Peter James Insurance and my cover includes self-assessed agreed valuation (IIRC up to £12k or £15k) as well as many other items covered including for a modified car all for a very reasonable premium.

Some insurers will take an evaluation from marque club assessors.

Unless things have changed now, do bear in mind that not all agreed valuations are equal check what you get for the agreed valuation it might not be what you think.

My PJI cover includes:
. agreed valuation (self-assessed for my car's value)
. modified vehicle
. comprehensive (so I can drive another vehicle 3rd party)
. UK and European breakdown recovery (which I've used and it didn't increased the next year's premium)
. motor legal expenses
. not garaged (ever)
. other named driver
. unlimited mileage (at no extra cost)

You can go to their website and request a call back (during office hours) so you don't even pay for the cost of a call - never use a website quick quotes for specialist vehicles -

http://www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk/forms/140314_requestacallback.html

Main website - http://www.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk/




Nigel Atkins

Thanks Nigel. For some reason I have never really thought about it previously. My problem is I've owned my Frog for so long now I don;t have a clue what its value should be as I have never changed it from many years ago.
Maybe I'll give Peter James a go but I'd still like to know who I can get a valuation from.

Mark
Mark M

Mark, as I understand the agreed valuation process is that you state what condition the car is and provide a set of photos, usually showing views from both sides, front, back and interior. From these then either you advise on the value that you require, or your insurance company sets a valuation which you then either agree or negotiate on until you have a figure that you are happy with.

The best way to value your car is to look at cars of similar age / condition etc to yours currently offered for sale. Bear in mind the very considerable increase in the prices of Frogeye cars in recent years. Yours may well be worth more than you had expected. And it is the value of cars similar to yours that is the figure to seek to have agreed since the basis of the valuation is that were you to suffer a full loss of yours, then the insurance company pays you a sum sufficient for you to go and buy a like for like replacement on the open market.
GuyW

Mark,
some insurers will take an evaluation from marque club assessors, so if you're in a club there might be an assessor that can give a value, some clubs charge some don't.

Otherwise you can get a classic car engineer to value it, of course you'll pay for that.

What mods have you got, I've got quite a few mods from original and I listed them all but the only two that seem to be worth printing on my PJI policy are 5 speed gearbox and front & rear suspension.

With my PJI policy the agreed value is what I put on the form, unless I was proved lying about the condition or it didn't have a current MoT if it required one.

Just seen PJI self-assessed value is up to £15k -
"Vehicles under 20 years old, or above £15,000 in value.
A Vehicle Condition Form must be completed by a Car Club Official, Restorer, Valuer, Specialist Dealer or other reputable person who may have inspected the vehicle."

See the form here - http://quotes.peterjamesinsurance.co.uk/documents/SpecialistVehicleConditionForm.pdf

I'm very happy to promote PJI as, for me, they offer good and wide cover at a very good price, I wish I'd been with them a lot earlier.
Nigel Atkins

Yes, a good Frogeye could well exceed £15,000 in value, in which case Nigel is right and you would need to get the professional valuation done. Other insurers may use a different threshold figure though. Up to that value your own DIY valuation, supported by photos and possibly a current advert for a similar specified car should be sufficient to get agreement with your insurer.

In my experience, modifications rarely if ever add much to a classic car value, certainly not on rarer or more "cherished" variants. Value is as much related to condition and originality as to upgrade modifications. So the 5 speed box which makes the car so much nicer to drive may in fact add little to the value compared to a good condition original 4 speed box. Its probably a "Six and two threes" issue.
GuyW

I'm with Guy, I'd have thought, depending on what the mods are, that some mods on a Frogeye might decrease the sale/monetary value as originality seems to pull the high sales values.

Cosmetic condition is also the very big thing with sales/monetary value. As long as it looks good it can be very poor runner and possibly poor mechanically if doesn't require a MoT.

Pity Rylan's not about as he'd be able to help here and with M who's after a £10k Mk3 midget.
Nigel Atkins

Valuations - I believe the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) can do valuations, maybe Alan A will be along soon to advise?
davidsmith

I've just renewed with Peter James and as Nigel has noted for over 20 year old cars you can complete the valuation form for up to 15k value without an independent valuer - they ask for recent pics.
Just completed my form 5 mins ago !
richard b

The Midget & Sprite Club archivist Terry Horler does valuations for members.
Alan
Kent Rep
Alan Anstead

I had all sorts of bother getting a valuation for my much modified MGB GTV8. The MG Car Club, of which I am a very long standing member, absolutely refused to offer this service and I struggled up here in Scotland to find anyone local who could help. Eventually my local garage who do my MoT tests provided me with a valuation. It was a bit less than I would have liked but better than none. I shall go to PJI next time as I reckon the car is worth just under the £15,000 cut off.

When I owned an Elan Sprint, Club Lotus provided valuations very easily. If MASC can do it, go to them.
Mike Howlett

Thanks for everyone's input. As I am time constrained I will have to try the self evaluated option first, maybe a good starting point would be the combined wisdom of this group in terms of the value of my Frogeye.
Surprisingly I don't have many pics online, I can upload some when I get a chance but here's one of the only ones I have on photobucket: http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz291/marktmaguire/Sprite/Picture005.jpg
She's a '58 with the fully studded screen and a fibreglass Speedwell Monza front end. The engine is a modified 1275cc now, 60 thou overbore, Kent cam, Maniflow system and 45DCOE. It's connected to a Rivergate 5 speed conversion. Frontline front end conversion to shock's and Revolution alloys.
It's mostly unrestored, the sills were replaced many years ago but the other panels are original. Carpets etc are non original but the seat are. It has a Moto-lita wheel. It should be Cherry red and has been many many colours in its life from the previous owner (I am only owner #2) There are some old pic's of the Frog in the Photobucket folder.
So that's my main problem with valuation, there are a fair few mods (although I still have the OG engine, gearbox and other parts at home) but presumably the bonnet has some additional value?
Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.

Thanks
Mark
Mark M

Great photos Mark.
I suppose the value is what would it cost to recreate a car to the same spec/condition as yours is as it's unlikely you'd be able to find an identical replacement.
That's not going to be cheap I'd have thought especially as it's a Frogeye.

Jeremy T2

Its not what it would cost to create another one that they take as the value, it is what someone who knows the type of car is prepared to pay to buy one. I was party to a conversation between an insurer and a potential customer who was annoyed that his current insurer wouldn't agree with his valuation and he was not happy when this insurer told him no car of that type was worth what he thought it was. The owners value was based on what he paid for it plus what he had spent vastly modifying it. The insurer explained that the value was what, say a club member, was prepared to pay to buy it which would be not more half what the owner had spent. Needless to say he was not happy.

Trev
T Mason

Interesting Trev, but is it not referred to as Agreed Value?
So maybe there's potential for some negotiating with prospective insurers, just to ensure if the car is written off, you're not out of pocket - obviously this will impact on the premium...
Jeremy T2

Mark, I know your car well and I'd say around 15k. Though it's probably been about 10 years since I last saw it (and you).
G Lazarus

Mark,
the valuation has very much to do with its cosmetic appeal almost to the exclusion of anything else other than rarity or very special history. Much of the mechanical details that interest enthusiasts are of no interest to a valuation.

I'm not being harsh just advising, if your car is as the photo of it in green paint then as an example that photo doesn't show the car to its best so doesn't help with value, sorry that just how it is.

Imagine if you were selling the car, which is actually what you're doing by selling its value for valuation, then you'd want all of the car to be bright and shining everything looking the best it can and for it to obviously show this.

In that green photo for example, the car looks clean and polished but it doesn't show as well as it could, a very flat photo, and a more neutral background will make the car stand out more too.

You want the car well polished including glass, chrome, other metals, wheels, plastic, number plates, interior, under wheel arches.

Tyres I feel should have a sheen look rather than gloss look so it doesn't look like you've tried too hard to make the car shine.

Not all valuations need or want photos of the engine bay, interior or boot but if they do then again all these areas need to be polished and gleaming including shut areas and components.

PJI has just - "At least two good, current colour photographs (not Polaroid) of each vehicle clearly showing the present condition and registration number".

The photos want to be in bright, but not harsh, day light (unless you're having professional indoor or studio photos) to make all your cleaning and polishing work stand out.

Personally, and bear in mind I have 5-speed, FL front & rear suspension, slightly uprated engine and Maniflow exhaust, that the mods don't increase the value of your car. Not that I know the value of your car and Gary would be a good person to give a more expert opinion.

HTH.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks again. So I actually thought the modifications would damage the value of the car as originality is generally more valuable in the classic car world, especially with the older Sprites and in particular the early ones with the fully studded screens like mine. This is why I have clung on to the components I have upgraded.
However, I don't know how the Speedwell bonnet is valued as these are presumably pretty rare.

Gary, Good to hear from you, yes it has been a very long time and I vary rarely come to this forum nowadays I'm afraid to say.
Thanks for your opinion, the condition of the car is unchanged as it spends most of its life in the garage.
BTW, I tried to mail you a whole load of old photo's for your sprite archive last year but heard nothing, they are the ones on the photobucket I mentioned further up.
Mark M

This thread was discussed between 21/02/2017 and 23/02/2017

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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