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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Leaking hole in steering rack

Not too sure what is going on, but I put on new boots and tie-rods a few days ago, and put some new gearbox oil in. Turned the rack on its end, and placed the full boot at the top to allow the oil to trickle down into the other boot.
In the morning I had a puddle of oil on the ground and it seems to have leaked out of a "hole" in the bottom side of the main metal rack area.
Can anyone let me know if this is supposed to have some sort of plug in it, and is this where I'm supposed to fill the oil for the boots? As the hole will end up at the bottom side of the rack when fitted to the car, I'm a bit confused.

Wazza


w butler

What year is the car ?

If your rack is a later 1275 '72 on approx or a 1500 it should only be grease on assembly - no oil.

R
richard boobier

G'day Richard. The car is a 1979 1500, but now I'm confused because my investigations in the various forums is that you must use gearbox oil and NOT grease.
Grease would make sense, but the comments have been that you can't "pump" grease into the internals of the rack when swinging the steering (and boots) backwards and forwards. Apparently the boots squeezing together when steering is designed to push lubricant into the inside of the steering rack.
Grease certainly wouldn't be leaking out which would make a lot of sense.
I'll go back and double-check to make sure I haven't misunderstood what people are saying.
Thanks Wazza
w butler

Hi I use to be a devlopment engineer for power / manual steering systems. We used a semi-fluid grease in the bellows.Try thatI think it was a Shell product


Keith
K A Smith

Thanks Keith I'll try to track it down. I guess that would also stop the problem of oil leaking out??? How viscous is the grease as the hole will end up at the bottom of the rack when I install it?
If it is too "fluid" it will also leak out, so I'll have to fashion some sort of a plug.
Wazza
w butler

Wazza its like a thin grease as for the hole why not use a self tapping screw!

Hope this helps

Keith
K A Smith

Wazza just found this Shell Retinax Grease TL 00 is intended for use as a premium synthetic semi-fluid grease that was what we used.
K A Smith

There should be a piece of some sort of tape stuck around.
Alex G Matla

Thanks for tracking that down Keith, I'll see if we have it here in Oz. This hole has become quite a dramatic topic as I've posted on a Triumph forum to see if they have any answers.
Apparently the 1500 not only used the Triumph Spitfire motor but also a Triumph sourced steering rack. The forum is abuzz with different answers, with a "self-levelling grease from Castrol" being mentioned.
Then I get answers which state that only oil should be used, others say that it must be grease. No wonder I'm confused.
One interesting answer was that the hole doesn't have to be plugged because it ends up under the mounting clamps where a rubber saddle does the trick. Perhaps like Alex suggested it works like a piece of tape.
The investigations continue. Don't want to put this all back together unless I've done it right.
Wazza
w butler

the Triumph rack was introduced as early as Feb 1972, during RWA production. The handbook states EP80 oil, but also says you should entrust this work to a garage. There's plenty on this subject in the archive, a search will turn up plenty of conflicting advice !
David Smith

"Perhaps like Alex suggested it works like a piece of tape."

No, there actually was some sort of sticky back band around the rack. replaced it with pvc insulation tape when refitted.

Of course not sure if this was original...
Alex G Matla

Thanks for clearing that up for me Alex.

Wazza

w butler

I believe that originally there was a plastic plug part number 145108 that was fitted into this hole. I inquired about this when I first got my midget and fitted an overhauled rack.
No experts could tell me what this plug was for, but everyone said, "it was no longer fitted, so forget about it".

Dave
Dave Barrow

David,

Sprite and Midget workshop manual makes no note of oil for later racks. Section J9.

It notes after every 30,000 miles or 3 years the rack is inspected and lubricated with approx 2oz of a 'recommended' grease around each inner ball joint and the rack including the teeth.

The early racks were oil lubricated.

R.
richard boobier

If it's the Triumph rack you use Castrol LM. If it's the earlier (Morris 1000 derived) rack then you use EP90.

The hole in the Triumph rack should have a rubber grommet but AFAIK this is NLA. If missing I wrap Spitfire racks with either PVC or Self-Amalgamating tape to act as a seal.
Deborah Evans

Self amalgamating tape here is also an excellent way of packing the rack when the clamp is fitted. It grips the rack well, but also squishes sufficiently to avoid the possibility of cracking the alloy brackets when tightening the clamp.
Guy

Richard, I am quoting from the original handbook that came with my car, a 1973 RWA (with Tr***ph rack) that I purchased in early 1975 <shrug>
David Smith

David,

I have that handbook as well (albeit a reprint) seems they did not totally revise it and bits seem to refer to earlier cars etc.

Page 61 refers to 'earlier cars (oil gun @ 12000 miles)'
and Later cars from GAN5-114643 30,000miles/3 years as 'It is advisable to entrust this work to your dealer'.

I've only used grease in my '72 RWA, used oil when I had the '67 in my 'youth' all those years ago oh happy days !

R.

richard boobier

I can confirm that the 1500 racks are supposed to use grease, applied to the rack teeth and inner ball joints as mentioned above. It's in the Bentley manual, and I'd confirm it if the book wasn't out in the boot, and I've already taken off my shoes for the evening.

;-)

But yes, it's grease.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

yes Richard, I totally agree - just providing balance to Nigel's exhortations to immerse oneself in the handbook - it cannot be trusted !
David Smith

David, Richard

my hands are up - but read on please

- there's a different Handbook for the 1500

the Handbook for the 1275 is a reprint of the 1973 (see last page) so obviously cars and stuff after end of 1972 may not be included and things have moved on with regard oils, bulb numbers, ect.

I've not noticed (note that word) errors in it unlike in other publications

it covers the vast majority of 1275 cars and aspects of ownership and driving not covered in other books

so I still think they are the best to have

it would be better if the information about the publishing date was at the front or on back cover but where it says 6th edition should be a clue that the information isn't static

I'll give this warning for '73 and '74 cars in future (where the year is stated) although I'd expect the book to be read and if treated as a reference it's parameters to be checked i.e. RTFM, I do accept a lot of people don't know, or bother, to do this

Anyone know print date of the 1500 please?
Nigel Atkins

Oops...

I indicated above that I have the Bentley manual, and that's not the case. Looking at it now, I see that it's the official British Leyland publication, entitled "Midget 1500 Workshop Manual."

Referring to Page 163, in the section headed "Reassembling," step 26 reads as follows:

26. Insert the rack into the housing from the pinion end, noting the following:

a. Liberally smear the rack and its teeth with grease.


That's the exact reference I was thinking of above. Earlier in the chapter, I found the following info regarding rack lube; this is on Page 157:

Removing
CAUTION: Should a seal become damaged, with a subsequent loss of lubricant, it is necessary to remove the steering rack assembly for dismantling and inspection of the components. If a seal has been damaged in the workshop and dirt has not entered the steering rack assembly, a new seal may be fitted and the inner ball joint and rack lubricated with a service grease, see 57.25.03.

That reference (57.25.03) contains the following note:

11. If the inner ball joint and the rack are in a satisfactory condition, apply approximately 2 oz (57gm) of a service grease around each inner ball joint and the rack including the teeth.



Anyway, that's from the Leyland book that specifically addresses the Midget 1500. Hope this helps,

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

what's disappointing is that the Triumph rack was introduced at the factory in Feb 1972 so a 1973 handbook really ought to recognise the fact;I suppose with constant and frequent changes going on it was only a matter of time before one slipped through the net!
David Smith

Yes, that’s not good, perhaps one department not telling another

as a counterpoint the first book I pick up suggests it was Jan 72 not Feb (not that it matters here)

perhaps even the 73 in the Handbook is a misprint and it should be 72 either way it's the only error/mistake that I now know about, if there are more it'd be good to told them

for the vast majority of Spridget owners and especially those new to the car or model or classic cars it is in my opinion the best first book to have and if you only have one book this should be it

I've not intentionally suggested or implied that the Handbook should be used in isolation, I'd sooner each owner has a few books to cross reference and cover all areas of ownership, servicing, maintenance and repair

of course the more you get the more discrepancies you get between the books as the chances of errors, typos and misinformation multiplies

with most British cars of 60s and 70s it's my understanding that what components went on the cars when was not always certain rather than always guillotine lines
Nigel Atkins

I seem to remember a thread some time ago re racks which stated - "If a nipple is fitted then fill it with oil and if not then fill with grease"- I know it seems counter intuitive, but it sounds about right for BMC/Leyland!
Graham P 1330 Frogeye

NOT all Triumph racks are fitted with nipples, later ones are fitted with a plug (and that includes ALL late Midget racks) so THAT'S a non starter!

I reiterate:

If it's the Triumph rack you use Castrol LM grease. If it's the earlier (Morris 1000 derived) rack then you use EP90.

Its NOT difficult people!
Deborah Evans

Thanks everyone. I just love a lively debate. I'm going with Castrol LM grease and in the middle of emptying out the Gearbox Oil I originally used.
It was mentioned that it is good practice to have a couple of handbooks and manuals. I have about 4 different ones, and the instructions were a bit confused - hence the call to the forum.
Last thing - is there any chance that mixing a residue of oil with the grease will cause a reaction inside the boot?
Wazza
w butler

No it will end up like semi-fluid!

Keith
K A Smith

Speaking of books, I used a Haynes manual in the earlier days of my Midget ownership, but when I had the chance later I ordered the Leyland 1500 book mentioned above, the main reason being that I was weary of ferreting through chapters on 948, 1098, and 1275 models just to find info on the 1500. I also think that the 1500 manual, being dedicated to that series, is somewhat more in-depth than the combo manuals, and being a product of the Leyland organization, perhaps a bit more accurate.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

A later addition to this thread: My car’s also a 1973 and I use a copy of the BL Workshop Manual (15th Edition) and for later cars (Midget Mk. III from car No. G-AN5-114643) it shows an exploded view of the steering rack in question with a plug that goes in the offending hole in the bottom of the rack. In the re-assembly instructions it says,

“ (36) (a) Liberally smear the rack and its teeth with grease.”

and later,

“(73) Lubricate around each inner ball joint and the rack with approximately 2oz. (57gm) of a recommended grease.”

That’s consistent with the advice given so far, so it seems my manual fits my 1973 car.

But, just to confuse things the recommended lubricant table at the back of the Manual says to use gear oil such as Castrol Hypoy B.90!

Peter
Peter B

This thread was discussed between 14/05/2011 and 28/05/2011

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