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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - lights

ha all,
car now painted and putting back together. clear side lights. does the indicator or side light go to the outside.? 65 midge
thanks bob.
trebor

Indicator sits on the inside. Note also that the light units are handed.
Lawrence Slater

LOL!
I went through this, trying to find out which way round was correct. I ended with the opposite conclusion to Lawrence - i.e. that the indicator section goes to the outside rather than towards the radiator side. My reason was logic - nearer to the corner of the car means the indicator can be seen from a slightly more oblique angle and is therefore more visible to other drivers at, for example, road junctions (for N American folk, UK cars don't have the wing-located side repeaters)

I also looked at other cars and at illustrations in Terry Horler's book and in Anders Clausager. From what I found there are probably rather more fitted towards the outside than the inside edge, but there are quite a few of both versions. I even found some which were different across the two sides of the same car!

Guy

Nope definitely indicator to the inside originally.

The light units have different part numbers. Each is handed. If you fit the correct hand to the correct side, the indicator sits on the inside. I haven't read horler, who everyone seems to quote as god, but if he says indicator to the outside, he's wrong. I've had my Sprite a very long time, and in the early years of scavenging in breakers yards for parts, and collecting lights from quite a few cars, that had obviously never been removed, the indicators were always on the inside, as were mine.

How much this matters I'm not so sure.

My view, is that I would rather have the width of the car marked by the side lights on the outside.

Maybe that's also why the frogs headlights were moved to the wings on the MKII Sprite.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, you may be right regarding originality, I don't know. Yes the units are handed, but each one will will mount either left or right. I know because I have tried it both ways. Since I wouldn't rely on side lights alone (parking lights) then I don't rely on the side lights to mark the width of the car. Headlights do that!

But anyway, I am not quoting opinions in those books, I am referring to the photographs. It isn't always easy to tell in a photo, but from a rough count there is a very definite predominance of amber to the outside. In fact I didn't find one that was clearly amber towards the centre line, although some were unclear. Maybe it was a year thing, or maybe they have been replaced, I don't know.

My money is still on amber outside, clear inside.
Guy

Yup they do fit both sides I believe, but go by the original part numbers, and description of LH/RH fitting, and it's amber inside. :)

To me, headlights are driving lights on dark roads. Side lights double as parking lights, and give the width of the car. Of course these days, with constant street lighting in most places, parking lights are often not needed. But I'm sure you remember when you switched on the offside side light, when parking and leaving the car on a dark street(if you parked the correct way). Even my BMW 1990 E30 had this feature. Do moderns still have it?

Like I said, I'm not sure it matters anyway, and merely responded to Trebor (bob).
Lawrence Slater

I do remember the requirement for lights being left on on parked cars (facing the right way) Always a problem with my cars because the batteries were always verging on flat (because I was always flat broke). I also remember a friend with a Rover TC that allowed him to switch on just the off side lights. None of my cars had that refinement!

I agree, I don't think the indicator light matters that much although presumably concours people would have a view. My main reason was the logic of visibility of the flashing light at junctions where I think outside is probably marginally better. Whether mine are right or wrong, I certainly don't care enough to go out and swap them over and I don't imagine you would either!
Guy

Sorry Lawrence from all I’ve seen you’re wrong to say that the indicators are on the inside – not that it really matters have them as you prefer

The indicators appear to be on the outside in the reprints of the then contemporary road reports I have but it’s difficult to tell with the not so high quality photos in the book

The light units and glass are handed but even that doesn’t make a big difference

I'm with Guy that instinctively indicators to the edge, in fact I’ve just looked and that is how mine are, I couldn’t have told you that though without looking, I’ll never make concours let alone my car

I don’t think the 5w sidelights would mark the width of the car much and it’s not true full width anyway

Terry Horler’s book has a few mistakes as Dave O’Neil and from him me point out – you know full well there’s only one god book when it comes to Spridgets – in fact just checked it indicators to outside

– yet again the Driver’s Handbook gives the correct answer –

whoohoo!

Lawrence check your copy!

Guy :p
Nigel Atkins

I've had some very original Spridgets over the yeasr with indicators outside.

Here are some period brochure photos...

1.


Dave O'Neill2

Pic 2.


Dave O'Neill2

Pic 3.


Dave O'Neill2

...and one from the driver's handbook LOL


Dave O'Neill2

Dave,
is there a brochure for the 1973 year model?



I noticed the black windscreen and the nice legs of the model, then the first syle of Rostyles

but I was totally distracted by that last photo

owwwhhh, it's lovely :)





just checked, page 32 in my copy of the good book, what page number in your copies Lawrence, Guy :)

muck, pig, happy am I :)
Nigel Atkins

There are various brochures for RWA models. Not sure which ones I have.
Dave O'Neill2

I'd get one if there was one for a 1973 (with alternator)

I also noticed how low most of our cars sit compared to those new in the brochures, seen it before with other cars but still surprises how we've forgotten this

on the lights there's one major supplier has RH and Lh unit allocation transposed to other suppliers - as I usually say you need to cross-reference any information you get especially in suppliers catalogues
Nigel Atkins

Or you could ask the people who know?

Ask them who built the cars which way round they put them!

Or should I do that for you?

Sorry Nige hands on info beats a book always :)
Bob Turbo Midget England

Another vote for outside based on both a diagram [a la Dave O 'Neil] and wiring diagrams [yes, I know they are only schematics] in my Workshop Manual. Also confirmed by a photo in a sales brochure showing a K registration RWA.


Doug Plumb

Yup, hands up, you got me bang to rights guv.

So sure of my memory was I, of how the lights are fitted, that I didn't even bother to look out of the window at my own sprite.

Amber to the outside.

I even took my nearside light out about 3 months ago, and my senile mind remembers refitting it amber on the inside.

Either I'm drinking too much wine, or not enough. lol.
Lawrence Slater

Oh, I posted a response especially for Nigel from my smartphone. But Smartphone isn't so smart as it didn't work!

Thanks Nigel, it is quite pleasing, to know that the Handbook confirms my thoughts on this. And it rather re-enforces my belief that one can use logic to get the correct answers to these things without needing to resort to the Handbook! Anyway, I never was one for reading the destructions, that was only ever as a last resort for me! And no, I didn't start at the beginning and work my way through the instruction booklet which came with the meccano set either. I believe that there are some people who slavishly made every model illustrated, in the right order - and probably then wrote the date in the margin too!

Lawrence it seems that you are not the rebel that I thought you were! (but I am glad you didn't check the Handbook, there is still some room for individualism!)
Guy

seem to have come to this thread rather late...but for what it's worth my '66 midget has indicators on the outside as originally fitted
David Cox

Guy, it never occured to me to check anything except my memory. Certainly not the handbook copy I have, which is for a late Midget anyway.

As for being a rebel, well I used to be young enough to be, but maybe age is diminishing my spririt in that repsect. However, I'm glad to report, as evidenced by my first posts in this thread, I'm still arrogant enough to state with certainty, that black is white. Even when it isn't LOL.
Lawrence Slater

All the photos in "Original Sprite and Midget" show the turn signal on the outer edge. Strange - on the MGB it is on the inner half of the lamp.
Mike Howlett

MIke, further evidence that MGBs are sh1te (and the work of the devil) ;-)
David Smith

Just for interests state here's a 'before' (bodywork modifications courtesy of the brother in law; rust courtesy of BL) picture which shows (at least on the near side) that the indicator is on the outside. The picture was taken in 1986 and we've owned the car since 1976 so I fairly sure it's the original way of fitting...

Jeremy


Jeremy 3

Oh, David, that's a bit harsh. The MGB is a very competent car, although not as much fun as a Midget, unless like mine it has a 3.9 litre fuel injected V8 under the bonnet.
Mike Howlett

Bob,
I don't know one single person who built these cars originally to ask, nor do I know where to find such a person, then I'd have to rely on them remembering what would be for them a mundane fact and of course they could remember wrong like a very experienced long term owner like Lawrence

Guy,
you only had a thought and I said it was instintive neither my be correct, in fact note Mike's remarks about the B and we're both wrong there - but the Driver's Handbook was correct as always, I've yet to find an error and I study it :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
I didn't say it was instinct, - you used that term! I said it was logical. If l was less than adamant about the way l worded it, it was l didn't want to be openly confrontational about this. I did not wish to be as blunt as to accuse Lawrence of being wrong. That too was you.
No, l am happy to work out how they went from basic logic, and happy to lately find the Handbook confirms this
Guy

Mike, yes the GTV8 was half-decent (I had one for some years) but really from about 1970-ish the ordinary B was a stodgy old thing with no real advantages unless you only did long distances om main roads (sorry, well off topic).
David Smith

Interesting that Guy, because my basic logic still thinks that the side lights should be on the outside. No doubt that corrupted my memory. I must have always thought that the side lights should be on the outside, and so I remembered it accordingly. I feel instinctively that mine are wrong, and remembered them as I would prefer them to be.

No doubt also, I could well have been influenced by MGBs and Triumph Spitfires. Amber on the inside. Seems that BMC couldn't make up their minds.

Anybody know how it is with Heralds? Any pics for evidence?
Lawrence Slater

My thoughts were that the most important function was as indicators. The side light function being incidental. In fact for most of the overall production the side light was integral with the headlights. Anyway, it was a process I went through when I restored the car and before I used internet forums to find out what others thought, so I just used my own ideas.

Heralds? - ! used to buy up MOT failed and crash damaged Heralds and do them up for resale so have owned literally dozens. But I couldn't tell you which way round their indicator lamps go!
Guy

Pity you didn't keep a Vitesse or two for yourself. I've always liked those.
Lawrence Slater

I did , for a couple of years. Then sold it to my sister who took it to Ireland and wrote it off! :-(
Guy

What a shame, they're quite sought after now, and deserve to be. I'd have been as happy with one of those as I've been with my sprite.
Lawrence Slater

Way off topic now, I had a 2 litre Vitesse for a while 40 years ago. I loved it, especially the sound of that engine. But the Herald gearbox wasn't up to the job and I broke it. Then the petrol crisis came along and I sold it - foolish youth.
Mike Howlett

Guy,
yes I mentioned instinct, twice, you said logic but your logic makes you wrong about the B lights and as I agreed with your logic I was wrong on that too

I don't mind being wrong and admitting it and refering to a book to find the correct answer

Lawrence,
I had a GT6 two before my present Midget, gearbox was particularly below average for use (and mine was of average quality for a Triumph) the sperate chassis made it nothing like a Spridget for fun
Nigel Atkins

I don't believe I made any comment or reference to lights on a B!
Guy

I always liked the look of a GT6, you should have kept yours Nigel.
David Smith

Guy, I believe Nigel was referring to your logic not applying to the MGB.
Dave O'Neill2

Dave,
I think Guy knows that just playing with me :)

David,
whilst they look great they're like an oven inside and the handling wasn't what I was used and mine was rebuilt (badly) but had loads and loads of work done to it

TBH it was a complete financial nightmare that brought me into contact with more motor indusrty rip-off artists - all best forgotten

but they do look good


Nigel Atkins

Just back from a visit into town and there, by coincidence was a smart white GT6 parked in the sunshine!
And then an old Vellocette police bike (outside the Police Station, who said the Cumbrian Force needed re-equipping?)

Nigel I am sorry but I cannot claim any responsibility for the logic, or otherwise, of MGB indicators. The fact that they don't conform to my logic is someone else' responsibility not mine. Indicators nearer the corners for improved visibility is how I judged how I would install mine on my car.
Guy

This thread was discussed between 28/03/2012 and 29/03/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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