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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - New rack wont fit! Help Please

Hi
I have a 1974 midget GAN5 145.
The rack needed replacing, I got a new Argentinian one from a good supplier.

Tried to fit it last weekend, the rack fits ok but the arms wont drop down low enough to allow the track rod ends to fit to the steering arms.

The old rack had the correct large adjustment nut with a smaller bolt through it.

The new rack is shorter than the old one by about 80mm.

I checked with the supplier, they are checking their stock, I need to accurately measure the old rack as well.

Any ideas why the new one wont fit?

Thanks for your help.

Mark
M Davis

are you sure you got the correct rack you need the later Triumph style rack

then if it's like the one I got from Argentina it wont fit easily and the gaiters will crack within 6 months and the standard replacement gaiters (GSV1104 and 5) don't really fit but the Triumph gaiters RTC22018 and 9 are from South East Asia and "not best quality seen"

also I replaced the TREs at the same time but that was a bad mistake as the rubber boots shredded on both within 6 months of light use

the Agentina rack I got from Sussex was very stiff to start but was fine after a little use but fitting was as I said very awkward I did check with Geoff about the stiffness and he did send out (generic) replacement gaiter kit straight away

I keep trying to warn about rubbish rubber

I did put a thread up to check out these new made racks before ordering and I think I put my experiences on there

I have photos of difference between the rack I had fitted (possibly not original) and the new Argentina rack if you need them but note these are the later Triumph based racks
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel

Thanks for the info

Its the later rack from Sussex that I bought so it should fit. I also bought new TR ends and they are about 15mm longer than the old ones.

I'll measure up the old one and let Geoff have the dims Weds.

Have to say the service from Sussex so far has been great!

The new one is very tight but I'd heard that before, its a shame none of the parts are now made in the UK, I guess its just not economical to make them here any more.

My only thought is that the front end has been replaced at some time and its actually got the wrong steering arms on etc.

Hope to have more info soon.

Thanks

Mark
M Davis

If you have the wrong steering arms - i.e. early ones - the TREs will not fit at all as they are a different size.

If you are saying that the you cannot get the TRE pin through the eye of the steering arm, is the suspension in full droop? If so, jack under the spring pan.
Dave O'Neill2

this is the bit I wonder about
>>The new rack is shorter than the old one by about 80mm<<

are the Moggie ones shorter?, I know they have two brackets instead of just one on the Triumph style

I think on the n/s I had to turn to full lock in that direction to get the TRE and steering arm to near each other then a little twist and tap to locate but no real difficulty getting TRE on with just the car on axle stands - now getting the replacement generic steering rack gaiters on is a real game of time and patience

I got GSJ178 (another part number I now know straight off) TREs from MGOC and they came with grease nipples (not sure if they're a good idea or not) but I swapped the boots on them for Rhino Rubber ones but that took a lot of effort to get hold of those and after I collected them I though I'd go for a ride and the accelorater cable snapped within a few miles - more new parts qualit

I think from this start of this year cracked gaiters and certainly split TRE boots will deprive you of an MoT certificate
Nigel Atkins

Hi Dave

Yes I cant get the TRE pin to reach the steering arm.

The suspension is at full droop, but my worry is that if I jack up the suspension to get the TRE's to fit then if its jacked up in the future there will be a lot of stress on the rack as it will be stopping the suspension from dropping all the way.

Also the new rack is shorter than the old one, I guess I could take the inner ball joints of the old rack and fit them to the new one, the old rack was worn where the rack passes through a guide bush on the tube section.

Mark
M Davis

Mark,
check with Geoff about the difference in racks

I'll try and post the two different diagrams but I'm sure you'll have the correct one ordered
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel

Yes def dont want cracked gaiters even if they were not an MOT item!

Quality of parts seems to be an unexpected minefield!

Mark

M Davis

Mark,

my "Tea is ready" so have this photo for now

Argentinian rack has bigger nut and the body peice is bigger which might be lifting the steering rack on your car?

chassis rail had to be persuaded on my car


Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel

Thanks for pic.

Yes my old rack looks like the one on the right.

My new one looks like the one on the left!

Just getting sizes checked now.

Mark
M Davis

remember to protect the metal on the rack and TRE as I forgot and found they rust like rust is going out of fashion

a photo of where on mine the new rack was too close

thanks to Brown & Gammon for photos - for once I chose wisely not to put the rack on myself as I just couldn't face redoing some of the work on the car not for the first time - they got the hassle and save my blood pressure and anger management from overloading

with the gaiters it was obvious that it would be a very awkward job so I waited for two consective sunny afternoons, good job I did I need the overnight to stretch the rubber but I lost two afternoons when I should have been driving the car not working to replace shoddy parts yet again


Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel

Your pic is interesting, is yours an earlier Midget?

On mine the rack cant be removed without taking out the rad first, also your mounting holes are horizontal, mine hold the rack with a clamp with vertical holes.

The new rack is actually only 10mm shorter than the old one, the biggest problem is that the arms wont pivot down far enough to allow the TRE's to engage in the steering arms.

I'll talk to Sussex again, I think the only solution will be a refurb rack, MGBhive seem to have them.

Mark

M Davis

If you want your old rack rebuilt, I can recommend Kiley-Clinton

http://www.steering-racks.co.uk/
Dave O'Neill2

Cheers Dave

Just talked to K&C. Really sound like they know what there doing!

Sending my old rack to them today!

Thanks for the tip, I looked at their site before but its good to get a recommendation as well.

Mark
M Davis

Mark,
I must remember to ask Geoff at Brown & Gammons about that photo as one of the reasons I didn't want to do the jobs was I didn't want to take the radiator out yet again, I've don't so much work with the coolant system on this car and the one before that I should be very used to it but I just resent it more each time I have to do anything with it

mine's a Heritage shell but I think the fixings holes are the same top and side of chassis rail

check with K&C about the origin of their rubber gaiters

I'm happy with the new rack it's self (as I didn't have the considerable hassle fitting it) but the abysmal quality of the rubber and fact the replacement are also abysmal or don't really fit is very disappointing

I hope the present rubber on mine last long enough to get passed the rubbish rubber phase
Nigel Atkins

So nigal

How woyld you rate these new racks...super great, must have, ot highly recommended.....hahahaha

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

if somebody else is fitting them then so far I'd say the racks are good :)
Nigel Atkins

Update!

Just got my rack back from Kiley-Clinton, looks great.

Its virtually a new rack, the only part not changed was the tube part! New rack/pinion/bellows/joints etc!

The old parts were returned as well.

They turned it round in 48 hours.

Not a cheap job, approx £211 all in, but its a quality job and its something I wont have to worry about again.

Come rain or shine I,m fitting it tonight so the old girl will be back on the road again!

The new Argie rack went back for credit, still not clear how no one else seemed to have the same fitting problem!

Mark
M Davis

Mark,
as I put before, not the same fitting problems but certainly fitting and gaiter problems with the Argentian rack - despite me checking that the racks were ok before ordering, perhaps the problems are since I ordered mine as seems to happen to me, and now to you

I forgot to ask about the rad still being in place on that photo as at the time I had fitting problems and further expense with the wrong front coil springs (Grommit) being sent then fitted

keep your eye on those gaiters for cracks and if new the TRE boots for shredding and if any of the metal is anything like mine then protect it straight away as if you forget like I did, twice, then it'll rust a lot, check whilst greasing the front suspension, every 3 months and just before the MoT for me

I'd be interested to know if your rebuilt rack is a little stiff at first or just feels firmer than the previous worn parts
Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel

Its certainly stiffer than the old one but not as "notchy" as the brand new one, which I was convinced was overtight.

The gaiters look to be good quality! I dont think K&C would fit dodgy ones!

Mark

M Davis

Mark,
to be fair my Argentian rack wasn't notchy but was intitially stiff but this soon went and of course you have to allow for the fact that a new rack might feel firmer than a worn rack

if you don't get any problems with your gaiters I'll see if K&C will sell me just gaiters when my replacements split as I assume they got there stock before the rubbish rubber flooded the market

it sounds like your rack with it's short arms might have been for a different car and marked up wrongly or dispatched wrongly from the manufacturer (as might have happened with my springs)

pity there's not an information bank for these problem parts

hopefully when enough customers and suppliers have suffered engough from these problem parts they'll be made better in the first place as seems to have happened with electrical items for the car
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 10/04/2012 and 19/04/2012

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