MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - NOS front dampers

I bought a pair of 20 year old NOS front dampers off eBay which turned out to be 20 year old NOS front dampers. You know what ebay is like, so I was surprised and delighted when they turned up.

Anyway, my question is. Should I replace the fluid and are there any perishable components inside that might need replacing? They have no discernable wear and are smooth throughout their full travel with a slight squish towards the end of travel each way.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

AFAIK they'll be just fine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5i1cJIwE7M
David Smith

Id drop peter cardwell a quick email asking his opinion... ive meet him acouple of times... he is a great guy and will be open with you

if anybody knows it will be him

world wide auto parts in madison wisconsin ???

Easy enough to find ... google ( peter cardwell lever shocks Wisconsin ) and that should give you some good hits )

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

David LOL. I thought it was going to be a tutorial video!
X2 on YLB. I've been looking for ages.
Bernie Higginson

Ok, OK. I forgot to say they were MGB dampers.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Is there something else you're not telling us Rob? When is the rest of the B arriving?
Bernie Higginson

Hmmm, you going down the B route??
Karl Bielby

Maybe just going down the MGB damper fitted to a spridget route, time will tell when Rob reaches the confessional.
David Billington

If they are LA dampers, I found a good clean out, replacing seals etc with (IRRC) a kit, plus replacing the oil in the damper with (heavier grade) Silkolene motorcycle fork oil worked very well indeed. I did all 4 by the by. Car is now far better planted on the road.
Mark Ogden

While we're on dampers may I just ask about mine. I have two OE ones which work well but the pinch bolts (correct term??) for the trunnion attachments have both sheared off with nothing to get hold of. Is it worth trying to drill them out as it seems the devil's own job to remove the arms?
Bill
0:7^128:0:2^6:0:1^2:0:2^8:0:1^5001:0:1

I had the same problem on one of mine. Drilled it and used heat and an extractor then cleaned out the thread with a plug tap.
GuyW

Thanks Guy, I'll give it a go at some point. My understanding is that an original Armstrong is better than a modern recon.
Bill
0:7^128:0:2^6:0:1^2:0:2^8:0:1^5001:0:1

The quality of "new" front dampers is pretty poor. A year or two back I bought two from Moss which were totally different in the amount of force needed the move the arms. One needed a scaffold pole over the end, and the other virtually fell down under its own weight.
There have also been reports of the arm and cross shaft pulling out of the body.
Graeme Williams

I'm torn between trying the MGB dampers or going for a telescopic conversion. The thing that draws me to the MGB dampers is the fact that the shock triangulates the upper suspension, meaning there will be much less flex and less wear.

But there is a reason that they produce telescopic conversions for the MGB!
Karl Bielby

'But there is a reason that they produce telescopic conversions for the MGB!'
- called profit! 'Marketing' seems to have convinced anyone who did not grow up with lever arm dampers that teles are better in some way, and therefore are the ones to have; this becomes self-perpetuating as the shiniest and most expensive cars at shows and meets are seen to have them fitted.
Of course they became the norm for new cars, mostly due to suspension design / packaging issues, and lower cost of production.
David Smith

"But there is a reason that they produce telescopic conversions for the MGB!"

It may well be that there is more profit to be made from selling a telescopic kit and, when fitted, it will probably seem like a great improvement over some worn out lever arms.

How much of an improvement over a set of new - or properly reconditioned - lever arms is another matter.
Dave O'Neill 2

I must learn to type faster!
Dave O'Neill 2

Dave

Spot on....and that argument may be applied to so many other things. Never ever assume technology automatically means progress.
Mark Ogden

There is a body of opinion which says that the standard lever arm rear suspension on Spridgets is perfectly adequate. Some of the rear telescopic conversions put the damper at an angle of about 45 degrees, thereby reducing the damping effect, when, if the rest of the axle geometry is in order, the damper movement should be as vertical as possible.
The front suspension is a different matter. The standard set up, using the lever arm damper as a top arm tends to twist under braking and steering, and under hard cornering positive camber is induced on the loaded wheel, something that I'm not sure that the Frontline system entirely corrects, due to the position of the damper still allowing an amount of twisting.
The triangulation which the MGB dampers (with adaptor plates) offers, seems like a reasonably cheap upgrade, but the ultimate front set up in my view is the superb, but eye wateringly expensive JLH arrangement.
So, I suppose you have to ask the question, how hard do you drive your car? If you are just pottering is it worth putting any of this stuff on it?
Bernie Higginson

For a number of years I raced a Modsports frogeye with the lever arm set up. The top link was machined to accept a rose joint so the camber could be adjusted to suit different circuits. I was running 8" wide Avon slicks.

The levers were ok yes there was a bit of movement but I took the view that yes there were ways of improving the set up but the design of the chassis was the limiting factor. Of course then the levers were still available new!

I agree with Dave Smith that standard set up in good condition performs satisfactorily in the vast majority of cases
Bob Beaumont

I agree entirely. But I am not sending my dampers half way round the planet to be reconditioned because that is where the ONLY reputable company is.. so I look for alternatives.
I know that many midgets used to, and still do race with the lever arm damper, because regulations say so!

If I knew I was going to get something decent in return, I'd have my lever arm dampers in for a refurbed set straight away. If it's not for reasons of improvement then nowadays it's a matter of spares availability to carry out the conversion!
Karl Bielby

Fair enough but I wonder if by getting them properly rebuilt (albeit in the USA) means they perform satisfactorily then would that be easier than trying to devise a set up using different more available parts??
Bob Beaumont

This is where I am now.

If the MGB ones are more reliably refurbished, that is an option. If not it looks like it be telescopic. I'd like to keep it original, but I'm not shipping stuff around the globe.

Il chuck some thicker oil in for now!
Karl Bielby

has anybody had any work done by these i have spoke on the phone to them and they seemed ok

http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/Stevson%20Motors%20-%20Homepage.html
mark 1500 on the road Preston Lancs

Peter May's uprated race dampers seem good quality. They are outsourced but I don't know who does them. Perhaps ask Peter if they will do them standard instead of uprated (revalved)?
David Smith

I've used Stevson Motors in the past. No problems.
Dave O'Neill 2

My view on this

"Some of the rear telescopic conversions put the damper at an angle of about 45 degrees, thereby reducing the damping effect"

is that because the dampers are adjustable, then just adjust them harder. Though I'll admit that they are not ideal, as when the axle is on the bump stops they are getting pretty close to horizontal..
Rob Armstrong

If the shock angle is changing throughout its travel, the rate is changing as well.
Dave O'Neill 2

"Is that because the dampers are adjustable, then just adjust them harder".
Would adjusting them harder make any difference if on full bump they are almost horizontal? The bottom mount of the damper will have travelled through an arc with virtually no damping effect. The LA damper has a cranked link, the business end of which is vertical, giving the optimum damping effect. After all, the fore and aft motion of the axle is taken care of by the spring and it's mountings.
I think David's earlier statement about marketing, profit, and telescopics being the thing to have, being the reasons for the trend to change from LA, has a lot of truth in it.
Having said that, where in the UK can you get LA recons that you know are 100% good?
Bernie Higginson

Someone, somewhere in the UK has the skill and resources to do this. You'd think there'd be a Bob or two in it although there'd need to be economy of scale. The way Peter Caldwell describes the reconditioning you clearly need to know what you're doing and have the correct resources. He says the main cause of leaking is lack of fluid as it leads to packing wear (they need lubrication) and a shock is actually supposed to leak a little.
Bill
0:7^128:0:2^6:0:1^2:0:2^8:0:1^5001:0:1

Yeh, the rears on mine have been replaced (they are red so probably just Moss 'uprated' ones or something) and they feel spot on at the back. It's nice and firm and well damped. Howie can hear them squelching, which suggests they need a top up of oil.
Karl Bielby

Bill, as said below, both Peter May and Stevson Motors get them done and the results have good reports, so worth following up on I would have thought.
David Smith

Ok, thanks David

Bill
Bill Bretherton

I remember someone mentioned recently in another thread getting a pair from Stevson and one of them leaked, I can't remember who posted the comment though.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 05/09/2016 and 10/09/2016

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.