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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - OTT?

I'm on a quest (or have an obsession) to make the midget more visible to other road users.
So it has led bulbs throughout and now has LED headlight units with built in combined led sidelights and indicators.
A picture says 1000 words so 4 images attached 🤭





Jeremy MkIII

If the sidelight is on then it remains on but extinguishes when the indicator is activated. (So you see the sidelight in between indicator flashes, if you see what I mean 🤔).





Jeremy MkIII

Well,

I hope you only use them in the dark, aka at night.

I'm really pissed off now that even on a nice bright sunny day, every f*cking vehicle approaching and following me, blinds me with their f*cking so called daylight running lights. Quite often full on excessively bright headlights, no doubt LE bloody D.

Once upon a time, you could go for a nice stress free country drive, down beautiful narrow shady country lanes, and really enjoy it, -- IN THE DAYTIME.

Not anymore.

Now I can barely see where the road is, as a vehicle approaches, with their absurdly bright dlr lights flooding my eyes; or reflecting at me in my rearview mirror, from the dlr lights from the dork following me.

If a driver really can't see an approaching or following vehicle, WITHOUT its lights on, in daylight, even on a cloudy grey day, then they shouldn't be driving.

Quite frankly, I won't be sorry at all when I quit driving.

Because, what with the state of the roads anyway, and now this obsession for absurdly bright lights, on continuously, day or night, there is increasingly less and less pleasure left in driving at all.

So if those are used for dlr, then yes, VERY MUCH OTT.

I for one am sick of being blinded by the light.

Blinded by the light
Approached by a dork
Why can't you keep your lights just for the night?
Blinded by the light
Followed by a dork
Please keep your lights just for the night.

There's only one acceptable exception.

https://youtu.be/lcWVL4B-4pI?feature=shared

All said in the best possible taste. 😉.

https://youtu.be/dt5TBQaL6Ns?feature=shared



anamnesis

Ooops, just as well we live at opposite ends of the country Anam.
They're used, well the sidelights are, during the day as ironically, that's the time when other road users, either don't see the car or see it but pull out anyway.
I've found with lights on, the incidences of people not seeing/pulling out, are noticeably reduced - I think it maybe that they're looking for hulking, dark SUVs (with DRLs ablaze) and are just not expecting an old, diminutive, sports car.
Jeremy MkIII

Could you adapt one of these for more road presence https://i2kco.com/defense/ . I was thinking of a Hummer or Humvee but you have some other options there.
David Billington

Like it David☺️
The HQ-7 Missile Launcher would probably be noticed, maybe pop it on a trailer behind the Midget?
Jeremy MkIII

DRLs. really started out as a trend or recommendation for motorbikes, to make them more visible considering their small visible frontal area on the road, and critically to make them stand out from cars. It was for safety of bikers, making them more visible and to highlight (literally) that they may change speed and position and approach much faster than cars. Not obligatory but adopted near universally by bikers.

So extending this as a legal requirement for new cars was very much a retrograde step, losing that clear distinction for bikers. And to make it worse, it doesn't include a requirement for rear lights. The consequence being the number of cars you see driving in appalling visibility on the motorway without rear lights showing, presumably because the driver thinks they have automatic lights on.
GuyW

I have a big eff-off Marchal ' Grande Portee' spot light on the front which sends a beam like an lighthouse and a high level LED brake light fixed to my luggage rack. And a flag made from high viz vest material. And a very visible dashcam mounted in a box attached to the tonneau rail between the seats.

But l agree with the question: why is it all needed? I guess that the sun ain't shining as brightly as it did back in 1966...

David Cox

DRL's are mandated by the EU, we still follow their laws, more recent cars have light sensors and they will put the headlight on automatically, when you don't have lights you appear as dark patch amounst the SUV's ( Sh*t Useless Vehicle )

Jeremy, I have been looking for LED/DRL headlights for a while, there are some really nice silver backed ones from Moss, but silly expensive.
Malc Gilliver

So why do DRLs not include rear lights? If you think your lights are on because the fronts are reflecting in the fog or road spray ahead of you, it's easy to assume your rear lights are on too!
GuyW

Not a real fan of LED lights mainly because they're sh*t in the rain --Daytime running lights I can almost see the value in - I usually turn the headlights on as soon as the sun gets down with my grey car otherwise everyone wants to try and run into me-
My pet hate is the HID self leveling headlights that some Subarus have. pain in the eyballs when they're behind in the dark on undulating roads flashing away in the rearview mirrors and lighting up the inside of your car--should be illegal---?
willy
William Revit

My Volvo '06 V70 (and Volvos in general for decades) default to dipped headlights (or DRL bulbs) and rear lights on, when you use the car.

Does have a light sensor for interior lights, so they only come on when it is dark enough (unless you use a switch). Nice feature, means you can leave the boot open all day long without draining the battery.

Have been thinking about DRLs for the Midget, but may also switch to LED for all side/indicator/brake lights and then just turn them on with the switch. Might need a beeper to remind me when I get out though...
Tim Carter

Didn't know about DRLs and motorbikes Guy, makes sense really.
I remember my father in law's Volvo 245 tank having the sidelights come on as soon as the ignition was switched on. Spent quite a bit of time helping regularly replace sidelight bulbs.

Like the idea of a massive spot light David😎. Also have two high level motorcycle brake/indicator lights fitted at the stainless steel hood retaining strip height, it's still a bit low - Nigel sold me his wind deflector (the best wrapped parcel I've ever received) so may add a couple there for when the hood is down, which it is almost permanently.
Like you have a dashcam but it's a tiny one, Nextbase Piqo, just visible (if you squint) to the right (passenger side) of the windscreen strengthening bar).

Not seen those LEDs Malc but Bowers do a Wipac set for £420 which look really nice. Mine are chrome/silver faced from ebay for £30 - thought it was worth a punt.

Tim a buzzer is a good idea. Although mine have been left on before now with no adverse effect as they consume so little current.
Bill very kindly drew up a set of instructions on how to use a relay to switch on the (previous headlights) as DRLs as I'm an electrical dullard.
Jeremy MkIII

LED's now used on pedal bikes are really bright, being up there BMW and Audie undipped car headlights. The problem is they don't seem to consider adjusting them to a downwards sloping beam. Plus there are ones on bike helmets, equally dazzling. But the worst feature with the brighter ones is that they are often set to flash. I appreciate they want to be seen but the flashing makes it impossible for ones eyes to adapt, so locating how far away the light is, or seeing past it, or seeing anything really, becomes impossible. Meet them oncoming on an unlit country road and you see nothing at all and can barely locate where the bike is. They are very dangerous!
GuyW

Yep yep and yep Guy.

It's all bloody madness.

Like many here, I've driven my Sprite for decades and hundreds of thousands of miles. Nobody has ever driven into me because they didn't see me, because I wasn't lit up like a Christmas tree.

Bikes I agree. I used to ride with my dip beam on sometimes.

Cycling at night I no longer do. But I do cycle in daylight, and I still don't have my lights on. Incredible it may seem, but I'm still alive. How is that possible? I must surely be risking my life. Hey ho.
anamnesis

Some of the worst dazzling lights round here are the e scooters you can hire in town.

Guy makes a good point about motorbikes being the original users in daylight and cars having them just dilutes their use by bikers. Much like everything else in these idiotic h&s times overuse defeats the object of them just like high viz vests. The correct name for them in my book is idiot lights because if you cant see a car you are an idiot.

Trev
T Mason

I've had drl's since 1986 (Volvos). The current V40 uses its LED headlights so I'd better avoid Tunbridge Wells 🤣🤣🤣

I cycle quite a lot with a decent road bike. In good daylight I wouldn't use lights but if it's a bit gloomier or there are trees darkening a lane, I'd use a flashing LED rear light but mine is a basic Halfords one so not as bright as some. The flashing mode saves battery and probably does draw more attention to the bike - I think it's a valid safety feature these days.

Jeremy, I think you should use what's best for you, what makes you feel safe. I sometimes switch the Sprite's lights on in poorer light.
Bill B

Cheers Bill,
I intend to.
Didn't Volvo have side lights on all the time in the late 1970's?
Jeremy MkIII

"Didn't Volvo have side lights on all the time in the late 1970's?"

Yes, Jasper Carrot did a routine about them ISTR.


Lucas were marketing 'Dayriding Lamps' for motorcycles in the late '70s.


Dave O'Neill 2

Side lights!

And on a brilliantly sunny day, apart from being superfluous anyway, you couldn't see them.

So what do the h-n-s obsessed idiot legislators and car makers do?

They fit near sunlight to the front of cars.

What does that do?

Flood the eyes of oncoming drivers so they're so dazzled, that they're momentarily blinded. Result? More danger created than existed before the supposed solution to the non problem was implemented.

Stupid beyond need.

How far should all this crap go?

Pedestrians shpuld all wear hi viz clothing and crash hats, -- just in case.

We should all wear knee and elbow protectors all the time, -- just in case.

20mph speed limits?

Why not 10mph? Much safer.

OTT. It's all gone a well OTT.







anamnesis

Anam, totally agree, well OTT. Remove all danger from everything and life becomes boring. No wonder there are so many idiots on the road as driving get more and more dumbed down that they concentrate less and less.

Trev
T Mason

Volvo 200, 700 and 900 series used sidelights. The 850s and V70s changed to (halogen) headlights for DRLs. We have a 2005 V70 which uses its halogen headlights. However, you can disable them (on that model) if you have the software which does save on bulbs, which are a pain to access. But headlights bulb access is another thread as is cost of the current LED headlights.
Bill B

My '06 V70 has been "fixed" so that with light switch to on (12 o'clock), all lights come on when engine starts. With switch to off (9 o'clock) no lights come on.

My wife's TT has automatic with light sensor, if it gets dark enough, it puts on the lights all round.
Tim Carter

"If it gets dark enough it puts on the lights" but what is dark enough? In heavy rain for example I always feel it is relative. On major roads with large amounts of spray visibility can be poor and need lights but on local roads with slower speeds visibility can be good and can be measured in miles at times so no need for lights.

Trev
T Mason

GuyW

It was more a recognition that one of the biggest causes of accidents were people pulling out having "not see a car coming" and getting t-boned.

With respect to rear lights - it's different, all cars have rear reflectors, brake lights and reflective number plates so much less of an issue.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Malc, yes, so they "borrowed" the accepted and established habit from bikers, devaluing their safety margins in the process.
GuyW

Absolutely Guy. Bike's lights are lost in a sea of approaching light. A can't see the wood for the trees effect has been created.

Often you can barely see beyond the first set of excessively bright oncoming headlights. And even if it's a bike, well out in front, you frequently can't easily distinguish it or see it's there, because of all the light behind. And as I said, it's increasingly bad even in daylight.

It's a daft policy.

Sure Volvos are strong safe vehicles. But just because they introduced the lights on all the time concept, doesn't make it a good idea for everybody everywhere.

I don't know, but I'd hazzard a guess, that poor light in the autumn/winter/spring months in Sweden, may have been the reason for it.

But anywhere in broad daylight, if you can't see an approaching car/van/lorry, even on a cloudy day, you shouldn' be a driver.

Bikes, with a very slim profile are obviously a special case. But even those should have a limit on the amount and height/direction of light they emmit.

I can't see it changing anytime though; unfortunately. As OTT seems to be the desired and accepted outcome these days.

Too much light. Cars that are too big. Drivers that are too useless in judging width. Etc etc.

anamnesis

I think that one of the major reasons people dont see others is that the majority of drivers dont look beyond one car in front of them. I was taught to look up the road as far as you can see. That way you anticipate what's going to happen before it does. A good example is on a major road with a dual carriageway or motorway, if you look up the road and see brake lights half a mile ahead ease off and you wont have to brake, but plenty roar up to the guy in front and slam the anchors on. In fact it should be possible to drive on these roads and very rarely, if ever, have to brake until you leave them.

Trev
T Mason

I remember when only Swedish cars had those damned irritator lights, possibly even OK in Scandigloomy conditions then I seem to remember some idiotic fools in the European mumblefest/parliament decided to bring that wonderful idea to the rest of Europe.

I owe so much to Strasbourg...
Bill sdgpM

Trev
Agreed. Someone once put it as "driving with their eyes on dip beam" or "don't drive into the problem".

I was on the M5 today. Car in outside lane doing 60mph when limit had become 70mph. I flashed - no response. So I blew my horn - no response. Reluctantly, I and many others undertook the car and it stayed in outside lane for as long as I could see in the mirror. Shouldn't be on the road.
Bill B

I read this some time ago and tbh I think it should be part of everyone's driving test.

https://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/
Malc Gilliver

Yep, very good that. I've seen it before too. Was it posted here before by you or somebody, or something similar?

The only thing I don't agree with other than for bikes in daylight is ---

"Drive with your lights on."

"Bright vehicles or clothing is always easier to spot than dark colours that don’t contrast with a scene."

Yes easier to spot, but bright lights also dazzle, temporarily 'blind' on coming drivers, and effectively hides the likes of bikes in a sea of light.

We can't see the stars in daytime, because of the light of the sun.

anamnesis

Tim said:

"My '06 V70 has been "fixed" so that with light switch to on (12 o'clock), all lights come on when engine starts. With switch to off (9 o'clock) no lights come on...."

How was that done Tim? I've read that a main dealer can fiddle about with the software with the appropriate program from Volvo but I'm not sure if that does the trick, because I can't tell if the lights are software controlled or simply use relays.
Our 09 S80 (essentially the same car) has the three position switch; Off, Sidelights, Headlights respectively. But Off turns on the dip beams immediately the engine starts.
This is one of the many things I dislike about the car and if I could disable the "feature" I would.
My solution for many years has been simply switching the sidelights on after starting and off again when I press Stop. It's a deeply engrained habit now and doesn't stop the car irritating me, but at least the headlights aren't blazing in broad daylight.

Incidentally I found replacing headlight and sidelight bulbs dead easy. The whole front lamp unit is retained by two flat steel "pins" and simply pops out when you pull them out. The bulb holders are easily accessible from the back.
Two minute job.
(Mentioned because Bill said the jobs a PITA on his car).
Greybeard

Grey, an 09 S80 is a P3 model (phase 3 I mean). My 05 V70 is a P2, P3 came out in 2007. Unfortunately, the P2 headlights are not quick removal, you have to remove the bumper for a start! So you have to struggle to change bulbs in situ with the limited space.

Re. software, DRL dipped beam setting can be changed using VIDA software. A dealer would be reluctant to do this I guess. For up to 2014 models you can get a cloned version of VIDA, which runs on a laptop, but you also need a "DICE" interface to connect to car via OBD connector. It's useful for re-setting codes e.g. after an ABS fault and gives live data. Pity I'm not closer.
Bill B

Very helpful reply Bill.
Thanks.
Greybeard

Does anyone know/has already done it, where to get a hazard warning kit which is suitable for LED bulbs?
(The flasher unit already in the car is for the lower consumption LEDs).

Thanks.
Jeremy MkIII

This thread was discussed between 02/08/2025 and 08/08/2025

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