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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Quarter light hinge(pivot) broken. Where to get?

I managed to break my left hand quarter light top pivot.

Frame and handle early pointed chrome type up to 1967.

Before shelling out 25 quid for a complete frame with glass, just for to get the top pivot, does anyone have any ideas where to get just the top pivot alone.

The early and later types have different part numbers.

The early type is AHA 7463. NLA as far as I can see.

But Sussex and others list AHA 9982, which I assume must be stainless.

Does anyone know if the early and later pivots are tge same shape, and are interchangable?









anamnesis

I had the same issue a few years ago, I’m sure I got a replacement from AH Spares, plus the rivets. Chrome type not S/S.
Philip Sellen

Thanks Philip. I'll give them a call.
anamnesis

Yep cheers Philip. AH Spares have them and the rivets.

In 46 years, never had to fix this before. Not bad going I reckon.







anamnesis

Hi Philip. Quick question.

Before I buy the rivets with the top pivot, how did you fit the rivets?

They look like solid rivets, so I'm guessing a hammer will be involved.

Could I use pop rivets instead?
anamnesis

I don’t think there’s space for pop rivets.

Yes, I used a hammer and a conical punch to splay the open end out. Be careful not to distort the frame.

If I were doing it again I might look into small S/S screws & nuts instead.
Philip Sellen

Thanks Philip.

One end of the rivet is dome/conical. What's the other end?

Is it kind of semi hollow, to put a punch into? Or is it flat solid?

If I haven't got the right punch, I'm thinking of screws instead too.

Cheers.

anamnesis

I believe theyre called semi-tubular rivets. Opposite end to the head is a hollowed out (tubular) end, but only by millimetre or two, to allow for it to be deformed over and clamp to the frame.

Similar rivets were used on top of the B posts on Sprite MKIII/midget MKII chrome finishers.

Im sure theres a special tool used to clamp and deform the hollow end, but Ive never seen one or know what its called.
Philip Sellen

Ok, thanks Philip. Very helpful.
anamnesis

I have knocked the "nail" out of pop rivets and then used a punch to knock down the loose end. If you start if off with a slender centre punch and then use a ball bearing you can get a very nice finish. I used this technique on the centre bonnet hinge on my ware war MG

Jan T
J Targosz

The original fitting isn't by pop rivets Jan.

Mine isn't. I only asked, if pop's could be used.

But actually, I can see now they can't. They would likely protrude too far, and interfere with the glass.
anamnesis

Am,
This link shows the principles.
The solid part of the shank equates to the metal thickness and the tubular part is squashed outwards to form the head.
If rivets a bit long could drill a bit out and cut off excess before flairing.

A round punch should be ok with the frame on a hardwood surface. Usually quite soft metal.

https://www.clevedon-fasteners.co.uk/products/semi-tubular-rivets


R.
richard b

Thanks Richard. That's excellent.
anamnesis

So ideally I need a punch with ends like these. Haven't got one, but should be able to improvise something.

Haven't taken it apart yet. But I'll need to get the glass out of the frame. It's tight. Any ideas how? Hot water pethaps, soften the rubber/grip?




anamnesis

How to remove and replace the glass in the frame.

As always, somebody has already asked, and others have done it before. 😁.

"Put it in hot water and the black material will become very pliable. This same process works well when putting the glass back into the frame"

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-gt-forum.1/quarter-light-glass-removal.4265785/
anamnesis

Be very careful if you follow the advice to pry around the edge of the glass - toughened glass is not strong around edges and can easily shatter !
ISTR wrapping some cloth around the glass and holding it in a small vice or something and just pulling the glass out !

For setting the rivet - (they are quite smal)l - could try spreading the tube part to start with using a large concrete nail (grind off point if it’s too pointy to start the spreading - then a ball punch / ball bearing to size and flat punch should do it. Steady firm taps rather than a FBH is the way !

I got some new glazing rubbers - strange stuff not like normal rubber - pushed glass in by hand on bench with a little lube and cut off excess when fully pressed in.

It was years ago so can’t remember all the details or where I got the rubber strip from !


R.
richard b

Thanks Richard.
anamnesis

Hi Am,

I wasn't suggesting using pop rivets for the quarter lights just explaining how you can make them "double sided" for other fabrication jobs.

After struggling for hours trying to fit a new glass into the windscreen frame on my TF I binned the rubber seal and used black silicone sealant. With careful masking the job went fine.

The top corners of my quarter lights don't fit snuggly when closed. Have you any ideas why?

A real coincidence - just looked up YouTube on the TV and the first suggestion was reassembling quarter lights on a Midget. Perhaps your post has prompted a high number of searches.

Cheers

Jan
J Targosz

Ah right Jan. I see what you mean about the pop rivet used that way. If they are strong when used like that, then maybe they would work on qtr light pivots too, if they can be flattened sufficiently. I've got loads of them, worth experimenting on some scrap metal sheet I have.

"The top corners of my quarter lights don't fit snuggly when closed. Have you any ideas why? "

Seal distorted? Have you used a new one? I also think overtightening the spring, can pull the qtr light off centre.

I'll take mine out today abd have a look at taking it apart.



anamnesis

Amazing. Well that was VERY easy as it turns out.

20 min's to take out of frame in the car.

Another 20 min's or so to take the glass and broken pivot out of the qtr light frame.

A minute with hair dryer softened the seal. Glass levered gently and it pulled right out of the seal. Stanley blade down the side of the seal, and it came out of the frame very easily, -- and in one piece too.







anamnesis

The glass has a recess. So a longer rivet may well not pose a problem.


anamnesis

To get the old hinge flange out, I used a pointed punch to knock the rivets back through.

They are good enough to be used again I reckon. No splitting at all. Punching them through, straightened them out.





anamnesis

I'll try to reuse these, if not, then Jan's idea with the pop rivets.

I could have bought new rivets, but when I ordered the pivot, I forgot. 😒. Not paying more for post just for 2 small rivets. Anyway, I like reuse. 😅.

As with the seal. Bit of black sealant, and it'll last another 57 years. 😁.

Edit. Not sure, but these rivets seem to be brass or some other soft yellowish metal.


anamnesis

Hi Anam,

I attach a photo showing my ill fitting quarterlight. To get it seating properly I would need to bend the pivot but I am not going to do that! Maybe useful to test fit if possible with loose rivets at a stage when adjustments could be made.

Have you seen my new 5 Speed, stainless gear lever? Whilst out with the camera I took a shot of it. With a MGB gaiter and chrome ring it actually looks better than the original 4 speed one. I now need a bakelite blank to make up a new knob or perhaps remove the 4 speed engraving but I would like to keep all the parts from the original box. I could probably "scatch" out the gate on a new knob in my lathe but not the numbers.


Cheers

Jan









J Targosz

Yep, that lever ring looks good Jan.

At the start of this thread, I mentioned I managed to break my top pivot. It happened because my quarter light wasn't closing properly either. Something stopped lining up, and pushing it snapped the top pivot.

With the pivot broken, the glass was springing rearwards at the top, a bit like yours Jan. It used to fit well, and the qtr light's never been apart before, so something must have bent or twisted in the frame. I'll have a good look when I put it back together. Hopefully the new top pivot is made accurately. Always a risk with modern replacements. Every chance it's crap. 🤣.






anamnesis

Just to recap. Broke my left side qtr light top hinge. Ordered a new one from AH Spares on the 29th November.

Despite showing stock, stock was there none. Supposedly due the following week, I waited, and waited, and waited. Rang them and my impression was, they 'forgot' my order.

Anyway, it arrived today, and looks good enough. So when I feel like doing it after xmas ( hopefully in mild weather), I'll reassemble it with the new hinge.



anamnesis

This thread was discussed between 16/11/2023 and 21/12/2023

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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