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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Remote starting

Hi Guys,
Just gone under bonnet of 1500 midget to use remote starter button as on my own today.

Having read the archive I think my s reg does not have one? is that correct?

If there is one please inform as if its where I think it should be its bust.

If not can someone just clarify how to rig one up?

Have had to rig push button starters on diesels before but thats simple compared to the many wires on a petrol and the loads they have to carry.

Prop had something to do with a thread a way back similar to this, so if you can remember Prop it would be much appreciated.

Have lots of other things to do but would like to get a step nearer to firing up asap.
Dave Squire

Not sure of the benefit of such a switch however rigging something up should be simple if you have done something similar with a diesel.

What you need to do is energise the starter solenoid. Thus you need to mimic the action of the ignition switch.

So using a button switch (as you did wih a deisel) connect one point to the battery pos, and the otherside to the starter solenoid where the wire from the ignition switch connects. To help you identify this position the wire on your vehicle ought to be white with a red tracer.

Wired in this manner would mean anytime the button was pressed the starter would engage and turn the engine, irrespective of he ignition switch position.

If you wanted to start the engine in this manner you would need to put the ignition switch into the on position before trying. :)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Hi Bob,

Thats great, going a looksee now.

It hasn't run in 10 years, managed to get it unstuck and it now turns over but no spark yet so could do with being under bonnet when turning over to fault find.
Dave Squire

Some starter solenoids have a red pushbutton between the two big terminals. Some just have a bump!
Dave O'Neill2

AFAIK no 1500 Midget was factory fitted with the solenoid type that has a rubber cover fitted over the end of the solenoid plunger. The rubber cover acts as an insulated switch - when manually pressed, the plunger operates the internal contacts of the solenoid which causes the engine to be cranked over. Early BL cars did have such solenoids fitted.

Be warned, though. Any form of remote starting system can lead to fatal consequences. Should the car inadvertently be left in gear, remote starting could lead to three quarters of a ton of metal uncontrollably lurching forward. Depending on where he's standing at the time, the operator of the remote starter will most probably have his name appearing in the short list of contenders for the annual Darwin Awards.

Andy Hock

So Bob, what you've managed to do is tell the interweb how to steal a car.
Back in the 90's if you ever saw a man walking around with a pair of crocodile clips each end of a length of wire - he probably just knicked your aunt fanny's car.
C L Carter

Not sure you can blame me for that? :)

I have merely told them how to turn the engine over IF an auxiliary switch is not available under the bonnet of later cars.

However I have not explained that they would need to energise the ignition circuit by placing a piece of wire (complete with crocadile clip at each end) between the battery and the positive (if the car was neg earth) of the coil. Which is the purpose of the wire you have described. :)

Not sure that was the case at all in the 90s, maybe the 60s perhaps?

I remember a public information advert that saw a young "teddy boy" hot wiring a car (using the technique you and I described) the narrator was saying "they have learned how to start the car without an ignition key!!!" god forbid. Then it went on to demonstrate how you would conceal an immobiliser switch (small toggle in the ignition circuit presumably after the coil)in the glovebox of a ford Zephur? I think.

Tried to find this on U tube but failed. :(
Bob Turbo Midget England

Don't worry guys, the kid trying to steal your car will be thwarted by two additional lines of defense:

1) the steering lock

though, this can be overcome by the properly applied use of some simple tools, it does take a couple of minutes to do (time enough for you to come running out of your house shouting, "you there! Hey! Stop doing that!")

2) the presence of a manual transmission

this is the strongest line of defense, as increasingly people are getting by without having to learn how to use one of these (it used to be only in the US, but the "disease" is spreading now to the civilized world as well!)

By the way, an ignition switch hidden, will not help if the culprit has brought a length of wire with alligator clips as described above. In that case, a battery isolating switch is more effective (even the starter will not turn), if the switch can be hidden discretely, or the knob removed after use). Though, a clever one might have also prepared a jumper wire to get by this as well.


Norm


Norm Kerr

I thoroughly recommend the old manually and electrically operated solenoid. Many is the time that I've had my head under the bonnet and wanted to turn or start the engine.

In fact, because I'm so lazy, that when I converted to an HIF44, I didn't fit a longer choke cable. It's been like that for 10 or so years. It's only a problem in very cold weather, when a few turns won't hack it and get it started. So on those few occasions, I just turn the key, pop the bonnet, and manually operate the choke whilst pressing on the solenoid.

I'll be gutted when mine finally burns out, as I understand that you can't get them anymore. At that point, I'll rig something else up. I'll probably drill into the bump on the new type, and shove something down the hole to push against the contacts. That's all the original is anyway. It's 12volts, that's not going to hurt you at all.
Lawrence Slater

What these are not available anymore???
How many do you need Law?

http://tinyurl.com/75h52l5

Norm I specifically stated that the immobiliser switch would be required to be fitted between the coil and the dissy otherwise as you state the wire would overcome it Not so if fitted appropriately

Not sure changing gear is a defence?

As stated the battery isolation switch is easy to overcome simply put a jump lead between the starter sol and the battery pos.
Bob Turbo Midget England

While the frogeye doesn't have a rubber buttoned starter solonoid (I seem to remember that my Vitesse did), I can start my car from under the bonnet buy pulling back the standard starter rod which fits into the switch. With the ignition off it just turns the engine, with it on it fires the engine or at least enables you to see if you have a spark.
frogeye Gary

That's very good news Bob. Last time this subject came up, I think it was said you couldn't get the button type enymore, and I checked the usual suspects, and they were only selling the button-less type.

So I think I might just have one of these as a spare, since mine has been doing it's job since 1966, and does ocassionally fail to make contact. I was going to open it up to clean the contacts, but I expect to find then burned down after so long. I reckon I could repair it with a bit of copper and brass, but much easier to get a new lucas original. Cheers.

And there you go Dave, no need to rig anything, just follow Bobs link.
Lawrence Slater

I emailed the Ebay vendor. The lucas push button start solenoids are still being made, so where I or anyone got the idea that they were no longer available, is a bit of a mystery to me now.
Lawrence Slater

If I want to operate the solenoid from under the bonnet I just use a hefty screwdriver to short across the terminals. But since to start the car you have to go to switch on the ignition anyway,I rarely need to just operate the solenoid from under the bonnet.
Guy Weller

Unfortunately it is not good for Dave to use this. His original starter Solenoid has the facility to operate with a ballasted coil for easier starting so this kind of solenoid is of little use.
:)
Bob Turbo Midget England

OK so the upshot is short it like Bob says in first reply.
Therefore leaving all wiring and parts as they are, just hot wiring it.

Still a shame about the button, my 1970 moggie had one (gawd rest its soul) and it made testin simpler when on the road and stopped. In all those 100,000 miles I did in that car I only ever failed to get to destination and back once. No satnav, no mobiles, no money for recovery ...... (I'l shut up now)
Dave Squire

Re. 'old style' solenoid vs 'new style'. Ignoring the extra terminal on solenoids that are designed to be used on ballasted ignition circuits, my understanding is that the only difference between the two solenoid types is the early one has a rubber nipple that covers the end of the solenoid's plunger (the later type of solenoid has no rubber nipple, just a solid bakelite housing, slightly protruding were the nipple would otherwise be). Pressing the rubber nipple would press the solenoid's internal plunger 'closed' (thereby connecting +12volts high current feed to the starter motor) - the same motion would happen to the solenoid's plunger when applying 12 volts to the solenoid's coil using the ignition key or 'hot wiring' the solenoid.

Some years ago, I did manage to, ahem, 'modify' my 1500 Midget (late type) solenoid by removing/grinding away the bakelite protruding section and replacing it with a rubber nipple/doodah. The solenoid then acted like an old style type - pressing the doodah would 'close' the solenoid's internal contacts. I wasn't happy with the modification because the rubber doodah has to be 100% sealed against moisture ingress, something that I wasn't convinced I'd managed to achieve.

Andy Hock

I've gotta be honest, i'm not sure a manual transmission is much of a anti theft device... perhaps in America, but here in the UK most people "drive stick"... its only teenage americans who cant be bothered to move their left foot.

Now - if you really want an anti theft device, take the synchro hubs out of your gearbox... and if you want an even better one, take the clutch pedal out too. It does make starting the car a bit tricky, and stopping for traffic lights is a no no, so you have to plan your driving very well indeed. I'm pretty sure VOSA don't like it either.
C L Carter

This thread was discussed between 17/06/2012 and 22/06/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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