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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Salvaging Worn Spindle (NOT mentioning wheel brgs)

At the last mot it was mentioned in "advisory" that there was bearing play on one side at the front. The play was only in the vertical plane but was also between the disk and the calliper, removing suspicion from the kingpin.

Having stripped it down I can see that there is wear on the underside on the spindle where the outer bearing fits. Although only thou, this is amplified at the wheel rim hence the mot comment.

Although the ideal solution would be to replace the spindle assembly, I wonder whether anyone has experience of using a Loctite type product in this application. It needs to infill the gap and withstand the hammer of the suspension loads. If it has worked for you, which Loctite component was it?

(I deliberately did not mention front wheel bearings, which I hope is appreciated......! Although I do have sitting here an 11/MJT17....... )
G Williams (Graeme)

Loctite tell me to use 638. Problem is it wont break apart again without heating to 250 deg C.
That will mean heating the whole assembly and I wonder whether that would cause damage.
G Williams (Graeme)

Never come across wear in that location. Was the inner race of the bearing was turning on the shaft??

Would a different bearing take up the difference. I have a spare 11/mjt/17!!
Bob Beaumont

Thanks Bob!
Ah, front wheel bearings - I think we started that conversation a year or so ago Bob!
I don't know the history of what happenned in the hands of the PO and his predecssor who did the rebuild. It has the correct bearings fitted (the "standard" mjt/ljt) and they came off cleanly and feel ok, so I'm tempted to reuse them.
There has obviously been some inner race fretting at some point. I decided rather than bodge I would replace the spindle assembly. However, the PO/rebuilder decided not to pay £1 for a cotter pin but to whack in a steel dowel. I can't get that out without stripping the wishbone and attched kit off the car to get it on the bench for some surgery. At the moment I don't have the heart to do that having pulled it all down not that long ago to replace the rubber bushes and shockers.

HEnce I await delivery of a tube of Loctite and will use a relatively small amount on the bottom edge of the inner race to take up the play.

In my working days we used gallons of the stuff to build up shafts where bearings had been spinning and removed metal down to quite a depth. Not ideal but the amount of movement in this case is fairly minimal anyway.
G Williams (Graeme)

Ah the joy of RHP bearings and their modern replicas. Could it match AK Rowling! Hope the stub axle replacement all works out ok. I have a spare king pin if needed and access to the special reamer!
Bob Beaumont

Your help and ideas appreciated Bob. Thankyou. I was suprised that a complete spindle, back plate and kingpin assy, reamed and fitted is around £50. "Everyone" sells them around that price but don't know qhat the quality is like. In at least one reseller, the surcharge for exchange was more than the refurb unit!

Should get the Loctite and new seal tomorrow or Wednesday.
G Williams (Graeme)

IIRC the Morris 1000 spindle from post 1955-ish is the same dimensions. Since they are being made new it would seem that it might be possible to drill off the old midget spindle and press/weld a new Morris one in. I pressed a Morris spindle out recently and it needed 8 tons of pressure to get it out. Not sure what the welding would do to the materials strength, though. It would also solve the bearing issue at the same time, wouldn't it?
r thomas

Here is one I prepared earlier, as they say.


r thomas

The wear indicates that the bearing has been moving on the shaft. This in turn indicates that the bearing has not been done up tightly at some stage - at the correct torque the bearing should be clamped firmly agains the upright at the base of the spindle.

The Loctite product will create a press fit situation. This isn't what existed originally, as the bearings are a slide-on fit over the shaft. If the wear is only a few thou, why not just torque them up as they should be so the inners and their spacer are all locked firmly to the upright? If it's more than a few though the whole stub axle ought to be replaced as they are marginal on strength anyway to go by the number of cracked ones I've found, not to mention the odd broken ones I've seen.

If you do go ahead with the Loctite solution, 250 deg is not that much temperature and is reached before any discolouration of the steel takes place. However, the 250 deg is needed at the inside of the beearing where the Loctite is, so therre is a risk that other parts could get hotter than you'd want while applying the heat and waiting for it to soak. Although I use the appropriate grade of Loctite in a number of situations to restore a press fit, this is one where I wouldn't as it would make subsequent servicing very difficult.
Paul Walbran

That sounds a fairly major bit of modification. I would have thought it would be easier to build-up the worn area and gring it back to the original diameter. If you have the kit of course...!
G Williams (Graeme)

Paul,

250C will change the colour of the steel see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering#Tempering_colors
David Billington

I'd have thought Loctite 641 "bearing fit" would be the one as "this product develops medium strength to facilitate disassembly"
M J Chapman

Needs to gap fill though. 636 does that. THat came from the Technical Support team at Loctite.
G Williams (Graeme)

Thanks David, quite right - a little brain fade there, I was thinking deg F ... must learn to read posts properly!
Paul Walbran

Isn't there someone out in the colonies building stub axles with brand new spindles, or did I imagine it?

Jono (JLH). Business opportunity???
r thomas

Eventually, just tightened the Bl**dy nut!

I think the PO torqued it up and then backed it off to line up the split pin hole. The manual is clear about tightening to the torque value and then increasing to the next split-pin hole rather than the previous one. All free to turn, no float at the moment although when stripped down I could see some witness marks on the inside of the inner race. Perhaps it went back in a different rotational orientation.

Sorted! (I hope!)
G Williams (Graeme)

Rob,

IIRC Huffaker in the US do a stubaxle with a replacement pin and I think someone in Oz do also from some relatively recent postings.
David Billington

This thread was discussed between 03/03/2013 and 08/03/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.