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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Starter motor not engaging.

My '73 midget has developed an intermittent starter problem.

It has started failing to engage, when it does engage starting is almost immediate. I am guessing that the problem is dirt on the Bendix drive.However to remove the starter seems to be quite difficult. Apart from difficulty of access there is not room to remove it from below and to remove it from above the distributor needs to be removed. HOW?? I've removed the heater trunking and the dissy cap but the rearmost bolt on the clamping plate seems totally inaccessible.

If I undo the two bolts which hold the starter motor to the engine will I be able to slide it forwards enough to check and clean the Bendix?

The failure to engage seems completely random, sometimes after two or three attempts it will work correctly, yesterday it refused to engage and needed to be pushed to a nearby slope.

Thank you Mrs Roger D!
Roger D

On my Frogeye I always have to remove the distributor. That's usually the easy part. I have it marked so that it always goes back with the same timing. But do you have the distributor mounting plate the wrong way round? The clamping bolt should be at the top and easily accessible.

Getting at the lower nut on the starter fixing bolt is very difficult. I always do this from above, with a short socket extension. You will need to get the starter out of the car and on the bench. Clean the Bendix gear with suitable solvent such as brake cleaner and do not lubricate it. You can easily check if it is spinning along the spiral groove freely. Also it's a good idea to check the brushes. I have never known them to wear out but while you have the chance...

While you've got it out of the car, you will need to make it easier to get those mounting nuts installed. I have both nuts welded to some thick wire which curves round the motor, so that when the top one is installed the bottom one is in the right position. Even so it's quite difficult, but a bit of swearing helps.
Les Rose

I was hoping to get the dissy out by undoing the two bolts on the clamping plate. The manual says that if it is done this way the timing is not disturbed.
Roger D

It's well worth scribing a mark on the dizzy flange whichever way you remove it. That is assuming your ignition timing is correct and as you want it. One day you WILL alter or remove it and forget where it was set!
GuyW

The distributor clamping plate usually has slots, at least mine does, so it's impossible to be sure the timing isn't disturbed. Far better to put marks on the distributor flange and the plate.
Les Rose

I didn't have to remove the dizzy because I had a 1500 so I can't offer anything useful there.
As Les says clean up the bendix and spiral super-clean. I use brake cleaner too.
Les says don't lubricate but I do. I use dry PTFE spray so the only residue is PTFE. There should be nothing oily there.
Don't forget to disconnect the battery before showing the starter a spanner.
I make no apology for stating the bleeding obvious; it's easy to overlook and the potential for fireworks is pretty high if you forget.
Also as Les says, giving the brushes and commutator a looksee and a bit of clean out is a great idea, even if it goes no further than that. Carbon dust and sticky oil are not a good combo.
Greybeard

It's a difficult one.

Sometimes, you just need a more patience based approach.

Maybe it lacks self confidence.
Perhaps it feels alienated from other parts.
Lack of Self Esteem?.
Doesn't like engaging, and just needs encouraging, coaxing into it again.

😷




anamnesis

Hi,

When I had starting issues I had the pain of removing the dizzy. Just has to be done.
But I tried cleaning the Bendix and refitted it all, but it didn’t really help that much.
Ended up buying a new Bendix and now it works much better. The “teeth” do wear down and that can cause engagement issues and nasty noises on starting.
Was fun compressing the spring as I used the risky two mole grip method!
Starts much better now.
James Paul

I shall have another go today.Bit scary removing the distributor.
Roger D

If you don’t have a timing gun I’d recommend getting one so that when it’s all back you can adjust the timing to the correct position. Or mark it before starting the work as others have said so you know how it should go back.
James Paul

Disconnect battery
Unclip dizzy cap and lay it over to one side, held temporarily with string, bungee strap or similar. No need to disconnect plug leads but if you do then mark each with bars of white paint,1,2,3,4. Useful to do anyway.
Carefully scratch a clear line on the dizzy flange and match with continuing it onto the clamp.
Slacken the 7/16 nut in the clamp pinch bolt, just a couple of turns. Dont disturb the bolts holding the clamp to the block.
Unplug low tension spade connector and remove the dizzy.
Disconnect the heavy cable at the starter motor end.
Remove the two starter motor bolts. Easiest is with a socket and ratchet for the top one and the same with an extension bar for the bottom, working by feel. Slacken both a bit first, then remove the bottom bolt and finally the top one.
Pull the motor out and lift clear.
GuyW

When l've tried that, Guy, l find that the bracket to block screws prevent the expansion of the clip ring sufficiently to release it's grip on the distributor. I normally just whip it all out, clamp 'n' all...l guess whatever works for you..Dave
David Cox

>>>mark each with bars of white paint,1,2,3,4. Useful to do anyway.<<<
Said Guy...
Quite right; I agree completely. But for my two cents I recommend Tippex. I always have a small bottle in the workshop.
It dries immediately and it's completely impervious to water, oil, fuel, pretty much indestructible really. And cheap.
Greybeard

Grey, that's what I use. Just wasn't going into detail ! Buy tippex is good to have around in the garage.
GuyW

Well, thanks for all the comments but I am defeated.
Dissy marked and removed no real problem. HOWEVER,I have an oil cooler fitted to my car and the heavy rubber hoses to that, prevent access to the electrical cable on the starter. They will move to one side a bit but not enough to allow access and movement of a spanner.

I will have to wait for when I'm doing an oil change and disconnect them, I can't face oil all over the place at the moment. I'll wait till my mate's ramp is free.
Roger D

Can you get to the other end of the cable? It's not far away, on the solenoid.
Greybeard

My take on marking plugs leads is use white very small zip ties pulled tight just behind the plug cap and cut off the excess. 1 on #1 lead, 2 on #2 lead and 3 on #3 lead. The unmarked lead is #4.

HTH
Doug Plumb

Easy enough to disconnect the oil cooler hose.

Put some rag underneath. You'll probably only lose a couple of spoonfuls...or is that spoons full?
Dave O'Neill 2

Mary Poppins would know. So would that Cream of singers, who was like a wolf Howlin about it.

And there are those who dream Lovin'ly about it. 😉.

https://youtu.be/M7u5SdjDSQQ?feature=shared
anamnesis

I take mine out via dis' removal too.

But I seem to remember (maybe a false memory) that if you remove the oil filter(holder bowl on mine), you can pull the starter motor out that way. That still involves a bit of oil 'mess' of course.

Just as well they work well, for very long periods between removals.

anamnesis

Great song for a sunny morning 😎

My mk3 Sprite had an oil cooler but I sold car in 73. I'm sure I removed the starter once or twice but can't remember how. You have, of course, to be careful to hold the terminal post whilst you undo the nut to prevent damage to the internal connection.
Bill B

Anam, I did get as far as a youtube video to post a link to a creamy spoonful but then thought, nah, I will leave it to Anam the Missing Link expert!
GuyW

It's missing some sugar and strawberries Guy. Lol.


anamnesis

Bill said...
>>You have, of course, to be careful to hold the terminal post whilst you undo the nut to prevent damage to the internal connection.<<
My tip is to use a hacksaw to cut a slot across the end of the stud for a flat screwdriver.
Makes it really easy.
Greybeard

This thread was discussed between 06/04/2025 and 11/04/2025

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