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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - starting problem

weird one this,

my 64 midget has always started first time every time, a couple of months back, occasionally it would not start though. When turning the key, the ignition light would come on, and then nothing - no click of solenoid, no starter motor trying to engage - nothing! this began to get more frequent, so changed ignition switch, but no different.

sometimes after a couple of tries, the car would suddenly start. or if I got fed up, it would start by pressing the solenoid.

I want to use my car more reguarly over the next week or so, and don't fancy keep lifting the bonnet to start it off the solenoid.

any ideas on this, I've cleaned and checked all connections, all seem fine. I'm now drawing closer to blaming the fuse box (2 fuse type box on this car)

regards,
John


John Collins

Dont think this is too wierd John
Sounds like a simple solenoid fault.

The solenoid is not energising for whatever reason (the normal click one would hear)

Sometimes it is a poor connection on the small wires at the solenoid but is more often a faulty solenoid unit
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thanks Bob, I've spent the afternoon messing about in the garage not really getting anything done apart from srting some boxes of stuff out, and I found a couple of solenoids, so decided to try this...and it worked!

The one on my car was a later style square solenoid, I've now put one of the early round shaped ones on it, so hopefully its sorted now.

Just need to get around to taking the car out, its been away since the mgcc aldon road visit, as the garage doors have been blocked with k-series donors!


John Collins

John the fault is probably the point where the solenoid screws to the car

it needs a body earth to do any work

when you built the car and painted it I bet you didnt clean away the freshly painted finish down to metal when you fitted the new solenoid (who does?)

after a while the screw hole that mounts it can grow a film of rust which insulates the screw, that leaves the solenoid insulated so the solenoid stops working

it often just needs a "unscrew then rescrew" to break the rusty film and get it all working again

Take the screw out again and dip it in vaseline so the rust is held back then refit it

(dead frequent cause of non-starting in elderly Minis)
bill sdgpm

Bill,

you are spot on again (as usual!), the fault returned a day or 2 after again - exactly the same, sorted the earth out and all seems well again (fingers crossed)

John
John Collins

As you know John I'm always happy to have helped

(I hope that's all it was now... :-) )

I wonder how many starters and solenoids have been junked for the failure of the earth path? Scary innit..
bill sdgpm

While we are on the subject of non-starting starters:
Mine sometimes refuses to start engine too, it clicks but thats it and sometimes after 10 trys on a row it does start.
99% is when the engine is warm.

Didnt change anything on the car and it always started until spring last year, swapped starter for reconditioned one and it appered again!!!
Heatshield has always been on same position...

Btw, for those who didnt know its a starter on a Kseries.
Arie de Best

"Didnt change anything on the car"

Qualifies for the understatement of the year:-)
Bas Timmermans

A good number I don't doubt Bill, if people do not checK electrical connections whether earths or real wires then stuff will be changed unecessarily. Excellent thrad.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

I used to have a problem with my first race Midget, whereby the starter really struggled to turn the engine when it was hot, but never when cold.
I removed the starter which had a 10-tooth pinion and replaced it with another starter with a 9-tooth pinion and I never had a problem again.

I don't know to this day what the cause was, but it seemed to be heat-related.
Dave O'Neill 2

Arie earth paths get ignored far too often even when Bob and I and others suggest cleaning and checking them


err

have you?

dont forget the car can pick out false earth paths with clutch cables throttle cables and such

They pass current but often give high resistance as opposed to proper BOLTED to FIRM METAL earth points

When the engine gets hotter return paths can fade away as resistance "resists"

Many people are assiduous cleaning the power OUT side of the circuits

but so many leave it at that, forgetting that current flows all along any circuit and needs the same conditions all round it
bill sdgpm

Thanks Bill, i will check that.

I did bring it to a proffesial garage but they couldnt find any problem but then again they could even get the car warm enough to test the not-starting-problem after a restart.
Their computer probably couldnt tell them so that makes modern mechanics clueless... LOL
Arie de Best

So John....how many K-Series are in your Midget now !
Dean Smith ('73 RWA)

Dean,

the blue car is dead standard,

the grey car has a 1.8 k-series in it, but not running just yet,

there are also 3 mgf's sitting outside at the moment for other converts to consider! all that power for a little expenditure....you tempted?

arie came over to the dark side! better than a 1380!

John
John Collins

Thanks to this thread I scraped the paint under my solenoid.
I took it of to fit new cables from battery to solenoid to starter motor, used 50sq mm cable, welding cable.

I started this operation 'cause I tried to start after a small rebuild / inspection after wich it wouldn't turn around properly.
Checked the starter motor, one of the carbon brushes was sticking.
While fixing this, some small pieces of metal fell out of the housing. As I didn't now what it was or rather where it came from, I put it back toghether and guess what? It was dead, wouldn't turn at all. Turned out the bits where molten soldering tin from the anchor. Obviously persisted a bit too much in trying to get it started. Got a nice new one now, still have to fit it though.

But I have more light and blinkers (turn signals) work more evenly, so all in all its better.
Alex G Matla

This thread was discussed between 24/01/2010 and 30/01/2010

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