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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Steering column greasing

Hello,
I have a 1972 midget and when I turn full lock there is a very loud groaning noise.
I needed a new steering rack and assumed this was what was making the noise.
Apparently it's actually the steering column making the noise.
Tonight I have to explain to my wife that the new steering rack costs twice what I thought and the car still makes a very loud noise which is pretty embarrassing when you pull up somewhere.

Does this sound right? and would it be something a complete novice (me) armed with the haynes manual be able to fix.

Any help would be much appreciated!!

James
j etherington

Had a similar startling incident in mine: turned out that the central boss of the wheel was fouling the lighting cowl. made the loudest scraping noise I'd ever heard!
David Cox

try taking the cowling off it only unscrews - don't overtighten screws when when replacing

if the noise stops Robert's your man, if not you may still be able to better here where it might be from if it's top end
Nigel At

Cheers guys!
I'll look cowling up in the manual.
Yep I'm really that bad!
Scary,huh?
j etherington

the cowling is the plastic two piece cover that sits just below the steering wheel that houses the column stalk (indicator/dip/flash)

held together by four small crosshead screws
Nigel At

James,

much more useful than the Haynes to you is the owners Handbook as it tells you so much you need to know to own, drive, service and maintain your car and it’s very useful to have as a paper copy (even if you get electronic copies later)

(Ref: 0057) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

If you buy it and thorough read it, it's not techical, then you'll know a few things that many owners don't

Also very useful, you can get suppliers catalogues for free to get you started to see where things go but in my personal opinion they’re not as good as a paper copy like – (Ref: 0016) - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Parts_Lists_3.html

You can also get an excellent DVD that includes original Parts Catalogues, Parts Fiches, Workshop Manuals and owners Handbooks to have in electronic format – http://www.motoringclassics.co.uk/heritage-range/c380
Nigel At

Right, that's it. Now I am convinced.

Nigel you own a printing press, and all rights to the publications you keep plugging. LOL.

Robert's your man? heh heh.

Are you talking about uncle bob here, or a favoured supplier that you get commision from ? :)

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence for a long time I done things, well I best say a different way, that way was with many mistakes and lots of cost

eventually I (sometimes) learnt by my mistakes so I'm able to show an easier way and one to avoid some of those unecessary costs

the cars cost thousands of pounds I think investing a little as £8 (or £26, or even £54) is very little to save time, hassle and loads more money that than is a a great idea

unfortunately I've not got a printing press and note I also promote those DVDs which are good but I don't get along with

I can only offer my experience as I have little knowledge and I keep forgetting what little I have left of that
Nigel At

Only teasing Nigel. :)

Did you see the classified ad I inserted?

Did you follow the link?

http://s1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/slaterlp/Midget%20spares/?start=all

If you scroll down you will find several publications for sale that will please your eye. Including the Midget Owners Manual.

Maybe they are still for sale.

Contact.
Mr. Lewis Warner.
Email: warner70@hotmail.co.uk
Mobile: 07950614696

Now I'm plugging, and completely without any financial gain. Just doing a favour to all, and the seller, who is not a spridget owner anymore, or a member of this forum.

Lawrence Slater

It seems you have to cut and paste the link, don't know why.
Lawrence Slater

Yeah I know mate I just thought I'd give a dry reply :)

you have to copy and paste the link into the address bar to get it to work

some useful bits that could easily be posted out
Nigel At

So James how are you getting on with that cowl?

did you buy a new or recondioned one?

Was there any difficulty in fitting it?

Was it the later Triumph derived rack?

Was it stiff when first fitted?
Nigel At

Hi Nigel,
Thanks for all the info!
I did actually buy the midget handbook at midget 50 and you're right it's a brilliant little book and great for someone like me.
The garage I took it to fitted a new rack (later one) I did phone up MGOC spares but they didn't have any reconditioned ones so I'd have to get mine taken off and send it to them to fix. They said my midget could be off the road for up to 6 weeks so I just went for the new one.
It did feel stiff yesterday but less so today. That could just be me getting used to it though.
As for the cowl, not yet. I was going to send another message about that.
To be honest I'm not sure what to do when I get it off.
Do you use grease or oil to lubricate it? is 3 in 1 ok?
I'm gonna go take the cowl off now just so I can see whats under there..
j etherington

Hi James,

yes the owners Handbook is great if only more owners would get a copy and read it

I don’t know where you got your rack from and whether was a MG/classic garage that fitted it but the new rack I got was good value compared to a recon one

If it’s the steering column making the noise I’d have thought the garage would have told you and dealt with it that’s why I suggest removing the cowl to see if the noise stops

Apart from replacing a bush there’s nothing to do on the steering column

I don’t think you’ll be able to get at the column unless you remove the steering wheel and you don’t want to do that yet unless you have to yet

I asked about your rack as I’ve just had a new one fitted and they had a lot of hassle fitting it as it was about 4 mm bigger in an awkward place – I put up a post and photo about it

I forgot to say you get at the four small cross head screws on the cowl from under the cowl and it separates into top and bottom

As well as grease and 3-in-one light oil for the car you also want to have at home

Plus Gas penetrating/releasing spray (much better than WD 40)

(thin) spray lubricant (3-in-one or Halfords)

silicone lubricant (for rubber, nylon, ect. Halfords do one)

electric contact cleaner (again Halfords do one)

anti-seize assembly compound (Copper Ease)

let us know how you get on once you've driven the car leaving the cowling off
Nigel At

James. Are you absolutely convinced that it is the column? When the garage fitted the new rack, did they also fit new track rod ends or did they re-use your old ones? I ask because a dry track rod end can make the most awful creaking noises.
Just a thought.

Bernie.
b higginson

Well done Bernie I broke two of my own rules there

assumed they would have replaced them (surely they did!)

and possibly over looked the bl**dy obvious
Nigel At

j etherington,
"It did feel stiff yesterday but less so today. That could just be me getting used to it though"

We all have days like that J. :)


Nigel At
"silicone lubricant (for rubber, nylon, ect."

Too much info there Nigel mate. :)

Lawrence Slater

Lawrence I put the silicone lubricant on my tyre treads to stop them wearing out :)
Nigel At

Are well, that makes perfect sense. :)
Lawrence Slater

Thanks for all the feedback!
I got it done at a local classic car garage and they had a nightmare too.
The mechanic said he thought the the noise was coming from the column but didn't mention it on the phone as I already seemed aggrieved by the cost (just shy of £500 all in) I had in my head 300 max.
Apparently there was trouble with the radiator and the hoses were split and needed replacing too.

I did unscrew the cowling but under gentle force it wouldn't come off so I wimped out and just screwed it back on.

On a separate note and I should probably start a new thread but yesterday after an hour flat out on the motorway I was just pulling up home and the car started making a very loud and scary noise and started to lose all power.
It sounded just like the noise my mini made years ago seconds before the head gasket blew.
I had a look at the engine and scratched my head but that didn't fix it.
There was a sort of clicking noise coming from around the carbs and the front nut on the top of the engine had a bit of oil on it and there seemed a lot of oil on the metal frame under the fan belt.
The new hose going from the engine to the fan was red hot, is this normal?
I left the car to cool down and was ok to drive the 2 minutes home but a bit worried as we're supposed to go camping in it in a few weeks.
I've attached a couple of pics but it's quite hard to see anything.

Thanks again really appreciated the help!



j etherington

the other pic....


j etherington

explain 'flat out' for 1 hour on motorway - do you mean 95mph or just 70?
David Smith

forgot to say, yes they did put on new rod ends
j etherington

70mph
j etherington

Have I got this right?

500 smackers to greese your steering columnn and fit rod ends?

Christ. My solicitor charges less than that.

Next time you need work, maybe I'll drive to Avon and do it for you at those rates. :)
Lawrence Slater

Right James let's get sorted now

first FFS get that owners Handbook you need it

oil at front, yes common, hoses getting red hot, well I don't know they do get very hot, oil on that top nut is proably just a bush washer split

- lets get some facts so we can help you -

how long have you owned the car ?

has it been laided up for a time ?

when was it last serviced and what was done ?

what was the 'trouble with the radiator ?

what water temperature and oil pressure readings did you have whilst on the motorway ?

now it's cooled down check the expansion tank for coolant level and condition and the pressure cap condition - report back

and remove the plastic or brass filler plug on the l/h/s of the rad as you look at it and look in to see how the coolant looks and the level - report back

leave plug and cap off for now - ensure the car can't be started with these off

(be very careful when putting the rad filler plug back if its plastic not to spoil the threads and on both don't overtighten and squash the O ring)

check you dipstick for oil level and and colour and condition of oil - report back

take the oil filler cap off, take off the two small hoses that put are on the carbs that join a Y-piece with a thicker hose, put your hand over the oil filler neck and blow through each small hose, you should feel a slight draught on your hand each time - report back

well I count 9 answers required so that's enough for now
Nigel At

Hi Lawrence,
It was 120 for the new steering rack from moss europe plus a few bits and bob like rod ends hoses and 3.5 hrs at wait for it 65 per hour labour.
To be fair this is a SW london mechanic.
My profile got stuck on Avon and won't change.

Hi Nigel,
Cheers for the questions. It's very embarrassing how little I know about the car. Trouble is I have no previous experience and work an average 60 hour week so have very little time to tinker.
===========================

Right James let's get sorted now

first FFS get that owners Handbook you need it

oil at front, yes common, hoses getting red hot, well I don't know they do get very hot, oil on that top nut is proably just a bush washer split

- lets get some facts so we can help you -

how long have you owned the car ?
======================
Had the car about 5 months
===========================

has it been laided up for a time ?
=======================
Nope it's driven once or twice a week
======================

when was it last serviced and what was done ?
=========================
The car is generally in very good condition. I really pushed the boat out in terms of budget as I knew my
own mechanical limitations.
I got it from Mike Authers and both Garages I have been to said the engine was in good nick.
2 months ago I took it to a MGOC 5 star place and give it a good checking over and grease up and to fix that groaning sound which they refused to tell me what it was, just that "it's fixed now" only it came back 2 days later
It is due for an MOT next month.
===========================

what was the 'trouble with the radiator ?
============================
I'll have to check with the mechanic. He said something about all the coolant coming out and the hoses were all split.
So it needed new hoses and the coolant replacing. To be honest I kind of switched off and just thought "here we go again sounds like they saw me coming"
================================

what water temperature and oil pressure readings did you have whilst on the motorway ?

========================
Same as always, water between Cold and normal and oil at 65 I think, I'll have to check that.
The bonnet didn't actually feel that hot when I pulled over though.
==========================

Oil was at Max level and was dark in colour
=========================

I'm at work at the moment but as soon as I'm home I'll check the other points.

Thanks
James
j etherington

Yeah I got my car from Mike Authers, for him to make a profit it will not have had a full 36,000-mile service

I wondered if it might have been laid up or little use before you got it

there's a lot more to a car that the engine but if it's in good nick then that is a good thing

greasing up and looking over by a garage is good but again it's not a service

if a garage wont tell you what they've done don't go back there

I can thoroughly recommend Brown & Gammons, Baldock, (£50/hour plus VAT) worth the drive to drop it off and collect another day

have you any certain proof of when it was last serviced and what was done before you bought it ?

readings and oil on dipstick sound very good

James I'm hopeless at mechanics but some things to service on the car really are simple

if you get that Handbook you'll see there's quite a bit to servicing the car compared to moderns but it also tells you how to do the stuff

I'd suggest look at having a full 36,000 mile service only missing the bits already done very recently - some you could do yourself the rest you could get B&G to do, some bits don't need doing together or straight away so you could stage it out

I know it means spending but it will be cost effective in the medium and long run and make the car more reliable and pleasant to drive

have you seen my usual advice to new owners post ?

BTW you should be able to change your title and add your car profile by clicking on Customise at top of page
Nigel At

Ah well 500 including purchase and fit of new rack, ----- maybe not so bad.

I feel for you. 60 hours a week at work wont lend you the time to DIY it.

Me, I have never taken my sprite to a garage in the time I've owned it, and now mecahnics rates are 50 plus quid an hour, I doubt I ever will.

Its a shame too. Cheap cars to buy, spares cheap, but labour rates can make them uneconomical.
Lawrence Slater

Hello,
Profile now sorted at least with pic an' all!
Obviously hard top not on at the mo.
Pretty sure I've got the last Service and MOT documents at home.
Yeah I was looking through other threads and saw you post about Browns and Gammons. Will definitely give then a go.
I've got the handbook and have looked through it and am pretty confident I can do most of the servicing myself.
I do need to put it in for a service and MOT as MOT and tax run out next month.
Bit worrying though as the steering rack cleaned me out and I haven't got off street parking so can't really put it off.
Is your usual advice just to get the handbook or is there anything else you recommend? The more tips the better!
j etherington

I know,
When I was a young my Dad tried to get me to take an evening mechanics course so I could fix his car for free.
Cheap wotsit I thought! Wishing I did now (;0)
j etherington

James there's loads, just been on another thread to be told it's off putting and mostly unnecessary but I'll post it for you

if you want I can email you loads I've done for someone else - nothing very techinical as I aint

nigel dot atkins at bt internet dot com

for inspiration you could have a look at Young Guns Classics no nanning elder hands there - http://younggunsclassics.forumcircle.com/

btw your car looks very nice

and you've proved the profile changes work some here can't get them to work so it shows we all have to learn and have to start from some where plus you never stop learning

long post to follow
Nigel At

Hi, welcome,

My advice to potential and new owners -

Keep a complete copy of this information to read and refer to now and later -

Buy an owners Handbook before even looking for the car and read it thoroughly as it tells you so much you need to know to own, drive, service and maintain your car and it’s very useful to have as a paper copy (even if you get electronic copies later) – http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

Look at and test drive as many good examples as you can including some well out of your buying budget to see how good the cars should be and that you may need to increase your budget

Allow in your purchase budget at least a £200 for servicing, maintenance and repairs in the first year, £500 would be better if you can afford as if you don’t use it all it can go forward to the next year – you have to budget for insurance, possibly road tax, certainly petrol so why not budget for servicing, maintenance and repairs which will decrease in cost the more you do of them

It usually works out less expensive to buy a good but higher priced example than a poor lower priced example

If you buy one then;
always have the battery and connections in good condition as this will obviously help with starting the car and running the electrical items but also it will help with problem solving many items whereas a battery and/or connections in poor condition will create problems or not help with other problems

Also have all battery leads and connections, other earth leads and all connections - clean, secure and protected - as this will help with starting of the engine and all electric circuits, same applies to all electrical wiring and connections too

As soon as possible after purchase do a full and proper 36,000 miles service only miss out items that you have 100% proof have already been done very recently, including;
g/box and back axle oils
brake and clutch fluids
coolant
dissy cap, rotor arm and leads (buy good quality ones) - http://www.distributordoctor.com/rotor_arms.html
fan belt

For a coolant change first clean with something like Bars Flush Cooling System Cleaner then drain the whole system - engine block, rad and heater matrix, if you can get any of these out to give them a good shake at the same time as flushing and back flushing then all the better - the sequence is use cleaner as per its instructions then flush, back flush and flush and continue this until water runs clear, refill with the correct coolant mixture but bear in mind in tap water isn’t always the best water to use

Follow the refill instructions from the owners Handbook to avoid get air locks or ‘hotspots’ that could cause overheating of the engine

If you clean the whole of the coolant system and also renew the seals and foam around the heater matrix you will find the heaters can get very hot

As new rubber cooling hoses tend to be poor quality now this is also a good chance to change them to silicone and rounded-edge clips - http://www.classicsiliconehoses.com/

Be aware that brand new parts can sometimes be faulty, especially electrical bits (see just above) so don’t discount them when problem solving just because they are new, buy good quality parts

Check the age of your tyres if they are 6 years old or more replace ASAP regardless of tread depth, this will improve the braking, steering, ride, handling and possibly noise and safety of the car greatly

Also change very old brake pads as soon as practical as they may well hard gone off with age, as can the hydraulic seals if the car has been standing still for many years and the clutch may be stuck on, tyres squared, bushes stiff, if facts lots of potential problems with a car that hasn’t been used much or at all for many years

Use the car regularly - to get used to it, sort out any wrinkles and prevent the problems that occur with lack of use, and to enjoy it

Every few weeks check your horn, wipers and all switches work and heater valve turns on and off (all no problem if you use the car regularly)

Follow regular checks, servicing and maintenance as per owners Handbook

Drive in all weathers, the Midget hood should be very watertight if fitted correctly and the heater is more than adequate, if working correctly, for the small cabin

Do not do any cosmetic or improvement work for at least 12 months of regular use, unless you need to replace parts or components, as you may need to use the money elsewhere on the car

Also very useful, you can get suppliers catalogues for free to get you started to see where things go but in my personal opinion they’re not as good as a paper copy like – http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Parts_Lists_3.html

You can also get an excellent DVD that includes original Parts Catalogues, Parts Fiches, Workshop Manuals and owners Handbooks to have in electronic format – http://www.motoringclassics.co.uk/heritage-range/c380

Cheers, enjoy your car

ETA: don't worry Lawremce this will be the last time you have to suffer this list :)
Nigel At

Cheers Nigel,
Just sent you a mail.
j etherington

why nigel, are you retiring, or do you have new one?
Lawrence Slater

>>Cheers Nigel,
Just sent you a mail<<

sorry James nothing my end perhaps I put my email address wrong

it is

nigelatkins at bt internet dot com
Nigel At

james. I hope it's not the case, but you may possibly be looking at head gasket failure. Noise at the carb could be one cylinder blowing through the gasket into the next cylinder. Oil on the rocker cover securing nut and oil all over the cross member could be crankcase pressure cause by head gasket failure, which would not always show as emulsified oil. ie. the oil would still be dark and not contaminated with coolant. It also could have been pressurising the cooling system if it's blown in more than one place, leading to the coolant leaks that the mechanic described. Head gasket failure symptoms can vary enormously.
As I said, I hope it's not that. Worth doing a compression test though.

Bernie.
b higginson

This thread was discussed between 05/08/2011 and 08/08/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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