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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Trouble re-fitting 1500 external rocker kit

Hi,

I have trouble! Just lost about 1 litre of oil in a very short time after re-fitting my external rocker feed kit. The oil poured out of the point where it fits to the cylinder head.

I got new copper crush washers but still this didn't work. Tried tightening it partially at first and then increasing the tightness slowly after each try. No joy continued to leak. Now I'm wondering if I've put the washers on the correct way? Do the washers clamp against the cylinder head or do they clamp against the nut end of the bolt i.e. before the pipe union?

Please help, need to get the midget back in action!

Thanks.
Rob.
P.S. the cylinder head seems to have some quite sharp machined edges jutting out very close to where the hole for the feed goes. I wonder if this is causing a problem?
ra hollingsworth

It should have a washer on either side of the banjo fitting. Be carefull as you may have deformed them if you have over tightened them already.

Good luck Carl
C Bintcliffe


My head casting was also very rough and I gad to file off the casting flash where the banjo goes to make sure i got a flat surface to mate onto.
Bob T

I put one on my car and tightened them up gently. It leaked until I snugged it down just a little more and it's been good. Don't tighten too much or you can easily shear the hollow bolt but at least it has the hole predrilled to make it easy to remove.

My supplier suggested 10 pounds as the maximum torque on the bolt.

Use new copper compression washers and make sure everything is clear of any machine/casting marks.

I don't know if the kit takes anything from the bearings but so far no one has offered eveidence that it does.

Good luck on the kit!
Clive Reddin 76 Midget

Surely no washers on a banjo? Check out for example the brake pipe to disk banjo.

Adding washers just adds more joints for the oil to escape; the 'crush' seals are between nut and banjo, and banjo and head.

If you must add washers, use fibre washers to provide seal on the non-crush joints.

A
Anthony

Fitted arocker feed last year which leaked like a rusty sieve. Tightened it up some more and the damn thing snapped off spraying oil over my newly cleaned engine bay and me. On the next attempt I used two fresh copper washers either side of banjo, cleaned the area of union on the head and tightened it hand tight. Then, with the engine running, tightend it slowly untill the oil stopped leaking and then gave it a fraction of a turn more. Bobs your mothers brother.
James Ballard

I always use copper wasers either side of a banjo bolt. Example being the block to oil filter pipe. How else could it seal?
Nick

Make sure it can't wobble the pipe afterwards. Might be enough to induce some slack?
rob multi-sheds thomas

Thanks all, does anyone know where I can get more of the washers required? I can't get to MOSS for quite some time and I've tried good old B&Q with no luck.

Can I use just standard copper washers? If so where could I get them from at the size required?

I did tighten the nut quite a bit towards the end, out of frustration - hope I didn't weaken it? Guess it's ok though until it actually snaps!

Thanks again.

Rob.
ra hollingsworth

Your local motor factors should be able to find you some.

Failing that try Rimmer Bros:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/


Bob T

Got mine from Rimmer Bros; http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/rimmer/triumph/spitfire/accessory#Rocker%20Feed%20Kit
If you ring them they will let you know the exact item you are after.
James Ballard

A good tip is to anneal copper washers before you fit them. Copper hardens with age, and you don't know how long they have been sat on a shelf before you use them. Heat them up to cherry red. No need to quench them if you don't want, because being a good conductor, they cool so fast anyway. Any hotter than cherry red and they will melt before you know it. This will soften them up so it is easier to get an oil tight seal with lower torque on your banjo. As for a supplier, if you can't get to a motor or engineering supplies place easily, you should be able to get them from a plumbers merchants.
Ben

As a 1500 owner who has seen that external oil feed kit, but has never fitted it, can you explain a bit how it works? I know that it runs between the filter mount and a threaded port on the rear of the head, but where does the oil actually emerge once inside?

Thanks! I may install one someday, but I'd just like to understand how it works first.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Gryf, there's a T fitting that screws into the block where your oil pressure line comes out near the bottom left of the engine. The oil pressure line then fits on the end of the T. The oil line for the head fits on the other end and goes up to the back left side of the head. There's a small bolt that you remove. Save it! Who knows if you might just need it one day.

The end of the oil line has a banjo fitting and a special hollow bolt. A crush washer fits on both sides of the banjo fitting and you just screw the bolt in and tighten it up.

Tighten the fittings and hopefully there's no oil leaks when you start up.

I had to snug mine up a bit more after installation but it hasn't leaked since.

As for new crush washers, Obsolete Automotive in Point Edward, Ontario, Canada carries them but I see no reason why copper compression washers couldn't be used in their place.
Clive Reddin 76 Midget

Hmmm...

I've already installed a "T" at the pressure sensor port -- One side contains the sensor itself, while the other's fitted with a capillary tube that runs to a conventional oil pressure gauge. That would complicate fitting an external oil hose, methinks.

Still wondering; where does this additional oil actually go, once it enters the back of the head?

Thanks,

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Gryf, to answer your Q about how it works (or rather what it does):

The amount of oil that the engine delivers to the rocker gear is very limited. It comes up thru a small drilling in the block and an oil gallery in the head to a very tiny hole under one of the rocker pedestals. It then travels the length of the shaft to the rockers (as a pathetic dribble by the time it get there). This limited flow can cause noisy rocker gear and premature wear. By fitting the external oil feed line you provide a much better pressure and flow direct to the gallery in the head & hence to the shaft so that it quietens everything down by immersing everything in much cooler oil.

The downside is that you get more oil over the valvegear which gets sucked into the engine thru the guides and it can get a bit smokey.

So, your choice is either put up with the odd puff of smoke or change the rocker shaft every 25k!
Bob T

Having raced for several years on Triumph 4 pots, the problem with the Triumphtune/Moss external rocker feed is that:

1. You really need to block off the internal feed at the head/block face otherwise you get all sorts of weird flow problems.

2. You need a restrictor in the external feed otherwise you will cause the main gallery pressure to drop which will result in an even worse feed to nos 2 and 3 big ends.
Deborah Evans

This thread was discussed between 20/04/2008 and 23/04/2008

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