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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Willans Harness fittings and Schroth

Thought this was better here than the K-series forum?

Wanted to know what lap belt anchor fittings those of you using Willans harnesses use.

I want bolt in fittings not snap-in/on. Sill mountings are a flush captive nut and the tunnel mounts are on a boss as I'm sure you all know.

Drivers seat is on a runner, passenger seat fixed.

Should I aim for pivoting mounts (with the insert) on all of them, or fixed mounts on the passenger and pivoting on the drivers side?

Willans do a narrow and standard fixed mount, and just a single pivoting mount - will these all fit in any combination?

Aware this will be to a limited audience but thought I'd ask - there's a few of you racers about who must have some pointers.

Also be interested in comments on Schroth (with the push-button buckle) versus Willans if anyone has either.

Just want as mcuh info as possible before spending £400+ on a pair.

Cheers
Lloydie
L McInally

The Willans we've used on the various race cars we've built have all had the sprung clasp type of fitment where a "ring" bolt is screwed into the captive nuts and then the belts are clipped onto that.

Bear in mind that the Harnesses that us who race use are all Aircraft Buckle release and are therefore illegal for road use.

On my road midget we've stuck with the diagonal lap belts so I'm afraid I can't help you on that one either.

A.
Andrew McGee

<<all Aircraft Buckle release and are therefore illegal for road use>>

Well, I never knew that!
Dave O'Neill2

Trying to find the definition which makes the aircraft buckle not legal... struggling at the moment tbh.

However, the wording is something along the lines of the buckle has to be able to be operated single handed.

Therefore for example this one is approved for road use:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/harnesses/sparco-4-point-driver-bolt-in-harness-2

and our race ones aren't.

HTH
Andrew McGee

I'd heard that the turn buckle ones weren't legal for road cars too, but that may be just a continuation of a myth that becomes fact.
frogeye Gary

I may be wrong but I believe approved for road use only applies to cars young enough to need seatbelts by law (about 1967 I think). Older cars I think can use other types.

Trev
T Mason

This may help?

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/MOT_Requirements_for_Seatbelts_and_Harnesses

Personally I will be going with:

http://www.msar.co.uk/detail.asp?p=111
Johnathan

Johnathan - have you got the Scroths? I really fancy them because of the buckle and the pull bars etc. all look to come as standard.

Haven't managed to have a close look at any of them yet - do you know if the standard Exige ones will go straight into the midget?

I've got the FL roll bar with the harness cross piece and the Cobra seats (same as you I think?)
L McInally

You have to consider the VOSA information with reference to the age of the car.

I think 67 and earlier are exempt belts. My 69 until year unknown is lap strap only (as oppose lap strap and diagonal - but I'd need to check). I'm not certain that lap straps in 1969 had or were required to meet a BS standard. Maybe someone with an original car and check their original belts to check.

I was always informed that the issue of the BS reg and FIA harnesses was that the BS reg required the belt to be able to be undone with a single hand and I can do this with my FIA belts (officer).

I've never had any trouble getting my 69 through the MOT test with FIA harnesses.

Note that the harnesses that have a release button that looks like a seat belt aren't generally FIA approved and so no legal where FIA (in-date) harnesses are required.

Finally, why not use the ring and snap fitting with an AIRCRAFT COWLING PIN to prevent accidental un-snapping?
Daniel Stapleton

Daniel - the Schroth harness suggested in my post is FIA 'approved' but most are not as you say. The ASM (Allowing torso twist) feature of the suggested Schroth is the best compromise for me between 6-point 'full' harness and extra head and neck restraint (Full race set up) and every day use car with occasional track day.

For me the standard 3-point lap belt is less efficient/safe with my present seats. That is subjective and my opinion based on my experience of my standard 3-point belt.

Lloyd - yes I have the FL roll bar with cross piece but at the moment I have MGB seats. I aim to switch my seats in combination with getting the harnesses. My measurement of a friends exige belts v my lap belt 'length' seems to suggest that the standard exige belts will fit. That said I would like the flexibility of the schroth adjustable system if at all possible (either pull up or pull down 2" lap belt). I don't know of any midget fitted with these belts - I guess you or me may be first.

Drop me an email (johnathanframe at hotmail dot com) and let me know how you find the cobra seats - with cars so similar we should meet up at some stage to compare notes?
Johnathan

with regard to road going belts/harnesses

from VOSA - MOT Manuals - MOT Guides and Inspection Manuals - Inspection Manual for Classes 3, 4, 5 and 7 Vehicles (our cars are group 4)

'Seats requiring belts
Seatbelt requirements depend on vehicle age, type and number of seats. To determine the requirements refer to the flow charts on pages 3 to 8 and then the relevant table on pages 9 to 10 in conjunction with the following notes. Unless stated, seats are not required to be fitted with seat belts.'

'Adult harness belts
Adult harness belts comprising a lap belt and shoulder straps are an acceptable alternative to any of the seat belt types listed.'


see section 5.1 -
http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 10/05/2013 and 11/05/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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