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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - wiper wiring

Hi Guys, I am wiring a late 60s sprite and have got to the self parking wiper circuit. I dont understand the diagram. I think I am using the correct toggle switch. Can some body explain how it should be wired and how the self parking works . Thanks
s page

Hi S Page
I had a problem with wiring my wiper motor from the switch But I had lots of help from this BBS especially Bob (Robert) Search the archive for a thread called wiper woes with my post being the first one, this will hopefully shed some light on this strange wiring of the wiper motor for you.
I Pickering

S Page - is that you Simon?

Take off the wiper motor and the screen, throw them away and don't worry about it of course... The racer's solution ;o)

You building a roadgoing Sprite then? Good luck with the wipers :o)

James

J A Bilsland

It always seems to me that there is something wonderfully mystical about self-park wipers that go on working after you have switched off the power to them.
Guy Weller

Simon

There is a fairly comprehensive description of the various wiper/parking circuits on Paul Hunt's website.
Mainly dealing with MGBs, a lot of it is general Lucas stuff.

http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/electricstext2.htm#wipers
Dave O'Neill 2

Here is a copy of the thread refered to by Ian. I had completely forgotton about that night turned out fine didn't it Ian. By coincidence FRM towards the end didn't think we were competent enough to do the job and tried to deflect our efforts, perhaps we should have thrown the dolly out the pram. See Fletcher you are wrong sometimes!!!


i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
I have a 1275 69 midget
Toggle switches, I cannot get the wipers to operate correctly. They will run to the park position then stop until I take off one of the connections on the switch and put a live there.
It is the later round type motor.
How should the motor be connected to the switch??

At the motor I have the following wires Green....Light Green/Red.... Light green Brown... Black..

Which terminals should these goto on the switch??


Posted 22 April 2007 at 16:21:58 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Has this problem subddenly happened or have you done something to cause it?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 16:24:44 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
When I bought the car I had a new loom partially fitted i.e most things sort of connected but not all and blown fuses aswell so I have started from scratch as thids seemed the safest way. i am not too sure if the loom is for a later model car.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:00:31 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
The motor should be a socket connection and thus straightforward. The problem here sounds like the switch itself they are a rather strangely connected switch.
So first do you have a socket connection at the motor?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:01:40 UK time
FR Millmore, Pennsylvania, USA, gofanu@usachoice.net
Look up Paul Hunt's site on MGB. He has all the variants for wiper motors and wiring, with excellent explanations of the differences and the sorting.
FRM


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:06:16 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Yes I have the socket connection at the motor so that is straight forward its the switch side that is puzzling me


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:07:52 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Am I correct in thinking it should be just a 2 position switch On/Off


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:15:44 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Yes the switch is on off have you got the right switch it does have internal connections.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:20:24 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Yes I am 90% Certain of this, I believe it is the same as the panel lights one


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:24:58 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
No it is different to the panel lamps do you want to change the 2 around as a quick check?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:28:23 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Dont suppose you know what number is on the side of the switch do you cause i cant be sure if the car has got the correct parts fitted



Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:41:59 UK time
Toby Anscombe, North Weald, Essex, tobyanscombe@taratec.co.uk
I may be wrong but I think that there are three wires to the switch:

Feed 12v from the loom
Switch - when on 12v to wiper
Park - when off 12v to park part of wiper.

There is a cam in the main wiper assembly which will engage the wiper until the cam breaks the circuit.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:52:26 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Ok I have found the correct switch Now just gotta connect it up the right way I have light green/red AND light green/brown connected onto the switch but the books show a black wire / Earth from the switch also if I connect this then I get a short to earth With just the two coloured wires connected the motor will run until the park switch is depressed then it will stop almost as if it is working backwards



Posted 22 April 2007 at 17:53:18 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Sorry mate I have just checked the 2 switches and they appear to be the same, you live and learn as they say. OK what wires have you got to the switch?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 18:05:53 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK should have 3 wires connected.
I think by the look of it my manual is wrong. Unfortunately I do not have my wipers connected any more so can not check reality however on my old switch the 3 terminals used were 2 4 and 7.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 18:09:33 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
It looks like power goees to the motor and returns to earth via the switch. This would mean that the earth would need to be connected on pin 7 and the other 2 on either. Swopping these 2 around would simply reverse the switch action


Posted 22 April 2007 at 18:18:14 UK time
FR Millmore, Pennsylvania, USA, gofanu@usachoice.net
REPEAT
Look up Paul Hunt's site on MGB. He has all the variants for wiper motors and wiring, with excellent explanations of the differences and the sorting.
FRM


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:13:26 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Bob i have tried this arrangement and it does not seem to work problem is related to the park system I can run the motor with the park switch out of the way when i press it the motor stops release it and it starts up again just wont do it electrically



Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:14:40 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
FRM I have had a look at this site but it does not help me cause the wiring colours and switch configurations are different thanks though


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:21:21 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Try this then
Connect/ flash either the red and green wire to earth or the brown and green to earth. They will flash but this should complete the circuit. One circuit should park the wipers the other should run the wipers. Does that make sense?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:29:24 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
OK Red and green to earth Nothing......... Brown and green to earth and loud buzzing from my power supply but no motor movement and it is off the park switch


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:33:04 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
just bear with me for a moment please.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:33:58 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
It is tempting to dump the self park and just have them on or off!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:34:48 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
is your car negative of positive earth?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:36:31 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Negative


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:38:24 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK if you are willing to work this through we can find the solution.
First disconnect the plug socket from the wiper motor and with your meter chech for power at the connections of the plug
Hopefully the green wire will be the only one live.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:41:14 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Yes this is correct


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:43:29 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Only 7.5 volts there but thats cause of my temp power supply so as not to fry anthing


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:45:17 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK then the next test has to be
Connect the plug and test for live at the switch end that is the green and brown and the red and brown, both of these should now be live if the motor is not in the park position


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:50:55 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
No power to red/brown with park switch in either position BUT have Power Brown Green with park switch released


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:54:33 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK my memory of this thing is begining to return.
What happens if we connect the 2 wires together thats the green and red to the green and brown? I hope the motor runs.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:56:05 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Yes the motor runs


Posted 22 April 2007 at 19:57:42 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Wait a moment


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:00:33 UK time
Dean Smith ('73 RWA), Suffolk, United Kingdom
My haynes manual shows

Park = Brown/Light Green - to Terminal 2
Supply = Green/Pink (Or just Green) - To Terminal 4
Speed 1 = Red/Light Green - To Terminal 6

No Black @ The Switch

?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:01:22 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Just a thought I have the motor in the footwell at the moment does the case take an earth from its mounting??? Could thid be whats missing


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:01:53 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Ok lets try to connect the switch for a moment ,
Where were your connections originally on the switch?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:09:25 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
T1 Black T8 red/green T7 Brown green This does not work


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:12:29 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Dean Thanks For this the only switch I have with the terminal numbers you say is a off on/on have connected up to this one and yes the motor runs but no park it just stops where it wants to so its on/off in effect used a green and no black


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:12:36 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK Your switch is marked different to mine.
In the on position of the switch only 2 connections should be "made" can you check your switch with a meter. Mine would be top and bottom. In my switch I would need to connect the 2 switch wires to these 2 points so that the motor would run with switch in on position
Does that make sense?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:13:57 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
On my switch I have terminals 1,6,7 &8



Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:15:46 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
I have another switch with terminals 1,2,4&7


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:17:56 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Is the on position with the toggle arm off centre??


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:18:45 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
I am guessing for your switch but I suspect 1 and 8 will be connected with the switch in the on position. Connect green/brown and green/red to these 2 if they are connected together then the motor will run and stop on the switch.
I am suspecting, half hoping that black will go to 6 depending if we have the other 2 the right way round.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:23:23 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Yes the on position is down middle is off.

If you use the other switch then first of all connect the 2 switch wires to 2 and 7.
This should then switch your motor on and off.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:24:32 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Ok done that no nasty noises from power supply this time motor ran to park position and stopped wont restart


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:28:23 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Can I just backtrack You said if the 2 switch wires were connected together then the motor would run. /Did you mean it would only run to the park position?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:32:31 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Sorry yes that is what is happening with these two connected it will just run to the park position and stop had the park switch out of the motor at that point when I first did the test


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:36:08 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Ok no problem just means something different can we just try then to connect brown and green to point 4 and red and greent to 7 remove the earth wire. In this position the motor should go to park with the switch in the centre OFF position.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:38:52 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
YEP that happened


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:40:17 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK keep your fingers crossed I hope now that if we connect the earth lead to point number 1 we should hopefully have a complete working system.
Connect black to 1


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:48:00 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
No Sorry just ran to park pos and stopped even tried a different switch to be sure


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:52:54 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
I wish I was with you, just for a moment do you think you have the later motor in the car? The later later motor required an extra connection in the plug. So how many connections have you in the plug?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:54:20 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Four wires but 5 possible connections


Posted 22 April 2007 at 20:57:07 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Yes I think this is a later wiper to the wiring harness that is in the car. Let me just see what can be done to overcome this.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:02:03 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
When you first came to the board you suggested by adding a live wire you could make the motor run? where did you connect this to?


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:05:01 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
If I connect a Green (Live) to the red and green the motor will run all the time


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:09:00 UK time
FR Millmore, Pennsylvania, USA, gofanu@usachoice.net
Are you sure you have the right site?
http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/
Hammer & Spanner> electrics>wipers
All the variants are there, and another link gives diagrams. All Lucas wipers use the same colours.
We discussed this extensively a year or two back, and Paul incorporated the results of that discussion.
Many switches look the same and have different internal connections. There are alternate switches that will work, but you have to map them and understand it.
FRM


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:10:37 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
OK then so long as my brain is not in default if you connect a green live to the point 2 remove earth lead. the thing will work, report back


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:14:21 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Thankyou Bob for all of your time and effort I would not have solved this one myself You now have an official Status of Super Hero!!!!! This will allow you to enter any public telephone box and get changed at an incredible speed!!!!!!!!! It will also give you the chance to ware you underpants on the outside of your trousers without children pointing and laughing at you.. Last but not least you can have a spangley cape just to impress everyone you no..

Thanks again Ian


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:15:59 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Two days And One night numerous blue flashes Thankyou So Much Gonna make lots of notes this one will not catch me out again


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:17:34 UK time
Bob (robert) yes Y8 is toast again :), England
Many thanks Ian. Most problems are solved by sticking at it and not getting sidetracked. Normally that is what happens on this kind of forum. However I am pleased we were able to modify the harness to suit the motor.


Posted 22 April 2007 at 21:20:31 UK time
i Pickering, Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Thankyou again would have had no park on the wipers if it were not for you


Posted 22 April 2007 at 22:43:26 UK time
Guy Weller, Cumbria, UK ('71 Sprite)
Impressive iterative support!


Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

If that does not sort it for you "pagey" then give us a shout and I will sort it for you.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thankyou Again BoB
I Pickering

This thread was discussed between 12/10/2009 and 14/10/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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