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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - wipers and indicators

indicators and wipers gone phut. Blows a fuse each time I pop one in (35a) and turn on the indicator. Where whould you look for a poor earth, if thats the issue? Any ideas as I am no expert.


j lloyd

Bad earth won't blow a fuse, you have a short circuit! Is it both indicators or only one? You will need to break the cct down into sections and test each part to see where the short is, possibly a wire chafed through which becomes live when the indicator is switched on and shorts down to earth.

If it is with only with one side indicator then the fault will be in that section of wiring, if either side then the fault is probably in the common section of the cct before the flasher unit.

Get out your multi meter, unplug the bulbs, the flasher and start looking for spurious earths!
good luck, Graham.
Graham P 1330 Frogeye

In the TR?

not a clue


but in a Frog I'd look under the dash top right corner below the screen where there is a huge bundle of wires and bullet connectors which are just slightly "strained" as they go round a couple of corners and one lot go across to the switches and the others run front and back to the lamps

I had a session of blowing fuses because a green (with a stripe) wire had pulled clear of its bullet connector and the bared bullet was touching earth, So when the indicators went on I was nicely shorting to earth on a handy peice of dashboard steel

Took a few fuses to find that one
Bill

If the short was before the flasher unit, it would also be before the switch, so would blow the fuse as soon as you replaced it.

One useful tip when tracing the source of blown fuses is to replace the fuse with a high-wattage bulb - i.e. headlamp - and then try disconnecting wires downstream until the bulb stops lighting.
Dave O'Neill 2

I had this exact same problem a few years ago, driving from Fife in Scotland to the Midlands. Of course it was blowing a gale, dark, raining and close to freezing at the time and I was on the motorway!

I also lost the use of the heater and reversing lights.

It took me weeks to track down the problem as the fuse would not necessarily blow when I used the indicators, wipers etc. I could be driving along and hit a bump and blow the fise again.

It turned out to be a wire going to the reversing light switch which had chaffed against the gearbox bellhousing. On the 1500 this wire runs down into the tunnel just above the starter motor on the right hand side of the engine bay. Any rubbing of this wire can be difficult to see due to large amounts of oil/dirt/gunk in the area.

Hope this helps.

P.S. What's the extra light on your bonnet. Can you post a piccie?
S Sloan

Check the loom at the front near the indicators... check the bullet connections are all in place, and for no chafing through bulkheads etc.

Maybe even check all the connections for the indicator switch on the column... in case things have come apart.

A
Anthony Cutler


Not sure about the frogeye, but just last weekend I had a similar situation. Tracked it down eventually - the front left indicator was shorting to the sidelight.

For a while I had the interesting situation that turning the indicator on lit the sidelight. Unless the sidelight was on, in which case the indicator switch turned it off!

I've got no experience with frogeyes, (on my RWA the wiper and indicator are on different fuses) but my first test would be to test whether the wipers blow the fuse too - if they do, the short is before the 'split', if not it's after the 'split'.

Hope that helps a bit? Good luck.
MarkH1

MarkH that presumably did not blow a fuse, as it was *earthing* back through the sidelight, that's not what is usually understood to be a short circuit.
David Smith

first thing is! does it blow the fuse no matter which indicator you put on? Left or Right? or is it blowing just when you select one side only? This will determine where to start disconnecting.
Bob (Robert) Midget Turbo

...which is pretty much what Graham said in post #2....
David Smith

Is the fuse actually blowing on the way back from Spridget 50 I suffered with the loss of wipers, indicators, brake lights, and lights!!!!

Not good when you have three other midget/sprites following you.

I kept replacing the fuse every few miles untill the weather eased off and it turned out to be the fuse holder was corroded..... once I cleaned it up with some emery cloth and checked the other fuses (which had not blown) and all has been well since.

Shaun
Shaun

so why is that a problem David? do you not want me to post?
Bob (Robert) Midget Turbo

again it's happened

someone posts a question

many answers get posted

which includes several ways of skinning the same cat

and several responses almost the same

and

the original questioner vanishes

and annoyance breaks out


?

maybe this ought to be on an FAQ i.e. causes of blown fuses

bullet connectors pulled out of poor connecting tubes and shorting
cables trapped and shorting under metal
screws driven into cable insulation by mistook

and ways of isolating same:

is it only on one side or all?
is it on all circuits on the same fuse block?
is it only when it rains?

Bill

why did annoyance break out?
Bob (Robert) Midget Turbo

I think we are both out of order Bill. This is supoosed to be a helpful thread to try and solve J Ls Indicator problems and not one on why David hates me or one about Wiki. Gladly discuss it there.
Bob (Robert) Midget Turbo


David,

You are quite correct. The fuse was not blowing, and the problem was an earthing fault, not a short.
Having sorted out the earth, everything now functions properly.
MarkH1

excellent Mark, that's your car sorted - now how is J Lloyd getting on?
David Smith

Many thanks for all your help so far. Sorry for the late response but I have been stuck in work. As soon as I start the frog up and turn the indicator switch on, either way, right or left the fuse will blow, same with the wipers. the lights work fine so does the horn. The pic I posted was me following the tr6, not a question about tr6 eletrics, sorry for the confusion, the extra light on the bonet is just a light cover on the headlights. Heres another picture and all the best for Christmas.


j lloyd

nice car jlloyd

glad you are back

if its blowing which ever way you turn it could be a fault within the switch, I had one with a "spring contact" thing that was shorting out instead of directing the flow to left or right.

But as I don't have a Frog we need someone who has one or worked on one to work it through.

If it was the wire before the switch I'd expect current to short it whether or not it was switched on or not

If it was after the switch it would surely only blow at the side it was connecting, so in the switch itself seems likely
Bill

Bill,
Just looked at a wiring diagram on the 'spridget-tech' site - it could well be as you say a switch problem, but it also shows a wire that runs from the switch through a bulb (flasher warning light) to earth. if this wire is shorted/damaged - when the indicator is turned either way it receives power and it would blow the fuse also.
Well its worth a look see !

Richard.
richard boobier

Another good point Richard

I think jlloyd has enough to go on, after enjoying his turkey tomorrow
Bill

Having quickly glanced at the wiring diagram for a frogeye in the Haynes manual I was looking for what could be wrong to cause the actions you describe.

Both the wiper motor and winkers take their power from the same fuse and that appears to be the only common point. This would suggest the only scenario that would fit the bill would be if the fuse you were fitting was actually too small!! What raing fuse are you fitting?

Could you see what happens when you switch on the hot air blower (heater)? Then can you please check for me how many wires are connected to the fuse at the opposite side to the white wire. (Ignition on)
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thank you all for your help, I will get to work on my frog very soon. The fuse I was using was a 35a fuse. I put the car up for sale a while ago but after getting some odd emails from people I just kept it. I have replaceed all the braking and clutch system and the car runs and drives well enough to use almost as a daily driver. As you can see it was re registered as a 1963 car but that has never bothered me as I just enjoy using it around town, its not unleaded and has a 1098 engine and a smooth gearbox casing.It is not perfect but great fun to own. Pic of the dash etc.


j lloyd

So after looking into this problem I have discovered that the fuse that blows is a 35a controling the indicators and wipers, as soon as i turn the ignition on the fuse blows, I have looked for broken wires etc but can not find a fault! everything else works fine, horn lights and the car runs, any help would be great. thanks.
j lloyd

JL can you please then confirm that it is only when you switch on the winkers that the fuse blows and that the wipers operate OK.
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Sorry just reread your post and I understand that when you switch on the ignition the fuse blows.

You therefore need to disconnect the wires from out of the fuse box on the out going side of the box.

with these out you should then be able to see which one of the circuits are causing the problem.

You could use a multi meter set on resistance. With the wires disconnected put one lead onto earth and one lead on each wire individually. When you have a direct short(almost 0 ohms) then that is the circuit with the problems. You can then connect the other/s wire/s back in to see which circuit does not operate if you can not tell from the wire colour
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Thanks Bob you are a star and this I will try. I have taken the fuse box off and cleaned it but this made no difference what so ever but I will try your thinking next.
j lloyd

This thread was discussed between 18/12/2008 and 01/01/2009

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