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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - wiring diag for single speed wiper switch

Hi Chaps,
just putting the dash back together after a 3 year rebuild. Car has single speed wipers.
Can get the switch to turn the wipers on and off, but doesn't park the wipers.
I have the 2 live feeds to the switch and one feed from switch to wiper motor. Does anyone have a diag that shows the correct way to connect them up to the back of the switch so that they park?
Cheers
Tim
T Dafforn

When I rewired my sprite from scratch the wiper was the one thing I got wrong and like you it didn't park. What I didn't realise was that the wiper was supplied with one constant 12V and the switch connects the other motor connection to ground to allow it to run. The parking circuit maintains the ground connection until it is parked.Should be easy to work out without a diagram. That's how it works on a mk1 at least.
David Billington

2 greens terminal 1
green/red 4
green/brown 5

regards bob.
bob taylor

Ok. This makes a little more sense.
Which terminal corresponds to which terminal?
Tim
T Dafforn

back of switch should be numbered.
what year car are we on about
bob taylor

1970.
Cheers
Tim
T Dafforn

this may help items 36 and 37


mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs

That diagram looks like it is for an earlier model.

Are you sure that you have the correct switch?

Might sound like a silly question, but Lucas made a number of switches which looked pretty much identical, but internal connections were different.
Dave O'Neill2

Thanks for the details. I think it didn't look closely enough at the switch to see the numbers.
Cheers
Tim
T Dafforn

sorry did not know the year this should be right


mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs

Tim,
the Driver's Handbook will help you with stuff like this plus much more you will want to know to get your car back on the road and get it and keep it running well

this could save you time, hassle and money

Ref: 0057 - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

you can also get a reprint of the factory Workshop Manual - Ref: 0002 - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Workshop_Manuals.html

and reprint of the factory Parts Catalogue - Ref: 0016 - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Parts_Lists_3.html

or you can get the lot on (to me less convenient) electronic form on a DVD - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-HMCC3009DVD

and to complete the full set :) - John Twist videos can be very instructive - – http://www.youtube.com/user/Universitymotorsltd#g/u
Nigel Atkins

you might find this link useful for early models

http://www.spritespot.com/Downloads/
mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs

THat's got me thinking! My 1970 doesn't have self parking wipers and now I wonder whether it should and they are not wired correctly. I have assumed they weren't invented then, or at least, not fitted. Pass me the handbook!
G Williams (Graeme)

THe handbook says it all! It should self park. ANOTHER thing the po-1 got wrong.
G Williams (Graeme)

Graeme,

these things happen when owners don't have or read the Handbook ;)

there are threads in the archive that will tell you about the wiring to the dash switch, parking switch on the motor and wiring connector

and of course wiring diagrams in the Handbook :)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks chaps. I have the manuals. Just couldn't see the numbers on my switches. All became clear when I gave them a good clean.
What also became clear was that my switch is not the correct one as it has a terminal missing. It looks more like a panel light switch.
Cheers
Tim
T Dafforn

Ok so if I have the wrong switch could I swap it for a off-on-momentary on so I can fit an electric screen wash pump?
Anyone done this?
Tim
T Dafforn

Tim,

Sounds like an plan.
David Billington

can you get an off-on-momentary switch to fit, I had trouble finding a decent heavy-duty momentary toggle switch at a reasonable price

you'd want it to be on-off-momentry so that the screen is washed as, or before depending on wiring, the wiper go so that you're not wiping on a dry screen when using the momentary (i fear I'm not making myself clear again with this)

the wiper switch (if rocker, sorry can't remember if yours would be toggle) would have the wiper symbol if correct, possibly worn off but still indented (obviously not if toggle)

if you had a modern (not original) round bodied wiper motor you could wire that up for 2 speeds with a different switch as they are two speed motors

I have a small magnifying glass I have to use to see the numbers on the switches (and to read the wiring diagrams, even when in A4 size)

I've a separate monetary switch on a electric pump and it's still frugal with the windscreen wash
Nigel Atkins

Hi guys,

Tink all spridgets should have self parking from about '62 onwards.


Feel I should point out that not all the round bodied, ie 14W motors are two speed. Think in the midgets case only the very last 1500's had 2 speed wipers from new.


Most of the models in the BL range only had single speed motors in the late 60's/70's.


Though all motors can be converted to 2 speeds by fitting the right brush assy, which is reasonably easy.


All motors are the same apart from the drive gear which determines the angle of the sweep and is easily swapped over.


Even the side the wipers park on in easily altered by changing over the parking ramp on the rear of the wheel.


Hope this info helps.
SR Smith 1

just to make what I put earlier clearer, I think all of the modern replacement (not original to car) round bodied motors are now two speed
Nigel Atkins

I'd be interested to know the outcome of this. I refurbished my dashboard about a year ago. I labelled all the wires. Put it back together on completion. The only thing that didn't work was the self parking aspect of the wipers. I took the switch out a few weeks back. Tried to see the barely legible numbers on the back. Reconnected the cables, hey presto it still didn't work. Very curious
Nigel Axtell

perhaps park switch or its connections on the motor or dash switch wired wrong or poor connection(s)
Nigel Atkins

Hi guys.


In a nutshell this is how the system should work.


The wiper switch and the motor have an ig supply on the green wire. The motor earth is via the black wire.


When the switch moves to the first speed position the light green/red gets a live and the starts to run.


If it's a two speed motor the switch supplies a live on light-green/blue in the fast position.



Now here's the clever bit!


When the switch is returned to the off position, the motor continues to turn as it sends a feed via the park switch back to the switch on the light-green/brown. There is a set of contacts in the switch that connects this feed to the slow speed wire and the motor continues to turn


When the ramp on the rear of the drive gear breaks the park switch contact the motor stops as the feed is removed from the light-green/brown.



If you have a motor that won't park, either the motor/park switch has lost the ig live on the green wire, the wires are wrong on the rear of the switch or the park switch is dud.



Hope that's clear.







SR Smith 1

I wish I could be anywhere near as clear, only think for me because of my poor typing and spelling was it took me a second to work out what word ig might be (ignition)
Nigel Atkins

This is one of the best explanations I've found on how it is all connected up!

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/wiper-problem.shtml

I think my park switch unit has seen better days. At the moment the Mrs parks them better than the switch unit.
I think the switch is replaceable but whether it's worth the cost......
G Williams (Graeme)

Discovered why my wipres didn't self park! THe correct switch but wired wrongly (what a suprise!). Now self park, but at the wrong end of the stroke ie parked at the top end of the stroke rather than the bottom. Anyone any thoughts on that?
G Williams (Graeme)

Is the park switch activating cam on the underside of the gear wheel removable? First thoughts are that it has been positioned 180 deg out of position.
G Williams (Graeme)

I think, yes and yes (poor memory done it all last year or so)

a small thin blade screwdriver will ping it out

check the arms don't wiper the bonnet instead of the screen by test with the arms off to start with

if I can find thread I'll confirm, I was with severe man-flu at the time and just couldn't get me head round it at the time
Nigel Atkins

yes I can now confirm the park ‘bump’ stop can be 180° out

and ignore me about the wipers wiping the bonnet instead of the screen that’s only if you’re careless like me and put the gear arm back in 180° different to how it came out !

these are good ideas from Derek –

‘Derek Stewart, South Cambs UK
And you could also turn the wheelboxes through 180 degrees (if you've previously marked the spindle position) and turn the drive cable over and so utilise the unused part of the assembly. Lots of good gen on this site
http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/electricstext2.htm#wipers ‘

(note: above link is to MGB site but much is relevant to Spridgets)
Nigel Atkins

I had a problem getting my wipers to self park and it was all down to how I was connecting up the switch. I had a lot of help from this bbs especially from Bob Turbo Midget. Search the archive for a thread called wiper woes. I have a diagram of how my switch is connected.



I Pickering

I agree with your colour logic but not the position on the switch! To achieve that on the switch I have, I need to put the green onto the single spade connector at the rear of the switch. Perhaps my switch is different but the connection you show is how it was when I started to look at the failure to self-park. It resulted in the wipers running when the switch was "on" and stopping immediately when "off".

Now I have swapped it round it runs and self parks although in the "top" position. This is caused I think by the park switch being activated at the wrong point in the cycle - it's 180 deg out. Since the park ramp can have two positions, I believe PO-1 chose the wrong one of the two or perhpas the motor in an earlier life had been on the other side of the car.
G Williams (Graeme)

Hi all,
Update on this..
Have sourced a switch which does on/off/momentary on.
sourced from a vanden plas/princess 1100 1300.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160993982572?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Works lovely!
Cheers
Tim

T Dafforn

I can't remember mine having that but it was an earlier model

have you wired it to wash and wipe on momentary?
Nigel Atkins


I was so impressed to learn my Midge should have a park option I managed to break my original switch by losing the springs on the garage floor!

So, new switch sourced from Sussex Spares (Lucas 34889) but this has teminals as follows looking from the 'business end' i.e. that not normally seen:-

Top left 4
Top right 3
Botton left 2
Bottom right 1.

I've trawled the archive & visted numerous sites to try & deduce which of the 3 wires go where but to no avail. Greg at Sussex is going to ask a contact but asked me to ring tomorrow. Anyone here know the answer?

Ta.
Gavin Rowles

Gavin,
having your 'View vehicle profile' up or saying what year your car is and one speed or two, colour of wires

otherwise the info on this thread or Archive thread called wiper woes as mentioned here earlier in this thread
Nigel Atkins

this might help from lucas site


mark (1977 1500 Midget) Preston Lancs


Nigel 1970 GAN5

2 green (went to 1 on orig switch)
1 green/red (went to 4)
1 green/browm (not attached but guess to 5)

I've been though the archive Wiper Woes plus some others closely related.

Mark.

Thank Diagram but I'm not sure what it tells me.

Now you both know more does this help you/me?

Thanks
Gavin Rowles

Yes, I wired the momentary to the washer so it goes off-on-wash.
Btw my car is a 1970. I'll look at the wiring if it helps ?
Tim
T Dafforn


Tim - do you have the same replacement switch? If so, yes I would appreciate knowing. If not I'm due to hopefully have the answer from Sussex spares this AM.

Having done some further research last night my best guess at moment is:-

2 green to 2
Grenn/brown to 1
Green/red to 4
Gavin Rowles

Actually the switch is different from the orIginal.
So perhaps not an ideal comparison.
Tim
T Dafforn

This thread was discussed between 22/04/2013 and 09/05/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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