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MG MGA - B Pillar installation question

I read about all the fun you guys are having with brakes, carbs, transmissions, wedding using wedding cars sevenoaks photos, eBay, and all the rest, and here I sit still trying to put my car back together. Sheesh, I haven't even finished taking it apart yet...I guess I am a bit behind. Someday soon I will be cursing the Prince of Darkness and remembering fondly the halcyon days when I was just worried about learning to weld in a straight line.

To the point, however:

I got the rear half of the car off the frame and am currently trying to replace the rusty bits. I replaced the rusted metal at the bottom of the inner wing near the dogleg area (much was missing altogether) and also fabricated some plates with welded-on captive nuts to replace the ones for the hood frame that seem to have gone missing. Now I want to at least tack the B piller(s) in place before remounting the body half on the frame and moving on to cutting up the front half of the car...

I separated the left side B piller from the sill assy, and am now trying to get it all lined up on the body. I am also using the fender as a guide (I have the body half sitting right side down on the ground so that gravity is helping rather than hurting me, and it puts the working left side at a comfortable height).

The photos online (thank you Eclectic Motorworks!) don't show me clearly enough whether the rolled over lip on the fender should exactly line up with the forward face of the B pillar, or whether the forward face of the pillar should be slightly proud of the lip. IOW, how far back should the face of the B pillar be from the vertical plumb edge of the body tub. Seems like I could adjust about 1/2 inch or so and it would still sort of look right, depending on what photo I am trying to reference.

Also, the height of the top of the B pillar is a bit of an issue. In the photos it's held down from the top of the inner wing about 1/2 inch or so, apparently. By putting the fender on the car, I can push the B pillar up until they just touch, and then obviously should go no higher. Do I want it mounted a bit lower than that for any reason?

The B pillars that I have (from Moss, I think) are not flat on the forward face -- they bow out at the top, but that seems to make sense. This means however that the lip on the lower forward edge of the B pillar and the forward edge of the body sheetmetal do not entirely line up -- in fact, it looks as if the B pillar lip should be about 3/8 ~ 1/2 inch back from the edge of the body.

Hope this is not as clear as mud...I will post better pics of my progress on my website if that will help to visualize the situation. Is there some way that experienced builders index the location that I am missing here? Does someone have an unrestored car with original B pillars intact and exposed that they could send me very clear up close digital photos of??

See http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2tk73/ for my site. (There is a picture there, but not with B pillar included...yet. I will update tonight later on, or tomorrow morning.)
AJ Mail

Alan, I am presently restoring a 1960 Coupe and have the wings off the car. The car is original and in good shape with little rust. I can take whatever pictures you want but don't understand what you are talking about (no offence). Let me know how I can help you (off thread) and I take and email you the pics.

Andy
Andy Preston

AJ, it sounds as if your car is cut in half. If it is you will need to get both front and rear halves on the frame along with the doors to get the correct alignment of everything when you weld. It will keep you busy for a long time.
John H

Thank you Andy...but I think the B pillars on the coupe are one of parts that are different from the roadster.

However, do me this favor. Measure the distance from the face of the B pillar to the forward edge of the body panel at the top, right in the middle of the latch area, and then about 5 or 6 inches below that. I'd like to have something to reference anyway!

Many thanks to ddsjostrom for emailing me some pics of his efforts - looks great!

I am going to go try taking a picture this morning and posting (too late last night) to illustrate.

Thanks again.
AJ Mail

AJ, IIRC the B pillar is covered by a shut face panel and then the rear fender edge seats on this. For correct alignment you really need to get the body back on the frame as John says. If you weld the B pillar on in the wrong location you won't be able to get your door striker adjustment correct and very possibly not even get it to close. I'll take photos of my car this weekend and send them to you next week. I'm in the middle of replacing the sills, but the A and B pillars are still on the car so you might be able to get some reference from those.
Bill Young

AJ,
Bill is correct in that you should have both halves of the car on the frame and then be prepared to install the wings and doors about 100 times in order to get everything lined up. It can be done but it takes time and patience. Have a good day!

John
John Progess

aj,since i have been through and still going through the
same condition you are.i whould suggest buying a copy
of malcon greene,mga restoration book.it has the specs you are looking for,and is correct.when i started on mine i had no a,b,pillares or any sill componets at all.have finished passengers side,now working on drivers side.i whould also suggest useing your doors as a starting point to line your fenders and sill with.cc
c.callaway

I realize that the car must be fitted together again to get everything lined up, but if the rear B pillars are lined up on the body and with the rear fender in teh correct place (to allow the shut face cover to install correctly) then I shouldn't be far off. I am only tacking and riveting the parts together at this stage. Moreover, once on the frame, the entire rear half of the body can move back and forth to help with door alignment -- it looks like there will be maybe 3/8 inch of play in that regard.

Appreciate all the help! I have received some nice pictures now, and one offer to come photograph a nearby car, and will be able to move ahead I believe!
AJ Mail

I wouldn't try what you are trying. I think the only way to align the b-pillars is with both halves of the body on the chassis and the doors fitted. Even on our extremely accurate jig, we do it this way.

Your door striker must lines up with your door latches first. Then make sure your rear fender fits. Even if you are off by 1/8" the way you are suggesting, you'll end up with problems.

There are two manufacturers of B-pillars and the ones you got from Moss are the better ones, but they still are not perfect and are not exactly like the originals, so it doesn't help to install them in the exact place as the originals. Again, they need to be installed so your doors will latch.

Also, before you install them, you should make provisions for the proper 10-32 mounting caged nuts that hold the shut faces in place. These will hold much better than sheet metal screws.

I hope this helps,
Carl
Carl Heideman

The body needs to be on a jig or the frame. If you try to get it close enough off the frame you will make yourself way too much extra work. while fitting things together use the doors to space the opening. You will never get proper body gaps if you try the way it sounds like you want to.
R J Brown

Carl,
Do you happen to know if the B pillars sold by Scarbourogh Faire are made by the same folks as Moss?
Thanks
Ken

You MUST have it on the frame to assemble it. Frames and bodies get stressed and bent after 40 years of driving so every car will be different.

Check out clarke spares. He lists the door opening dimensions.

John Progess was wrong when he wrote,"be prepared to install the wings and doors about 100 times in order to get everything lined up". It's more like 150 times ;)

Fitting the doors just right takes patience. I made my own door shims out of 24ga steel instead of the thicker cardboard ones from clarke.

Right from the start, get used to putting the fenders on and off.

Fred

Fred H

Ken,

Scarbourogh's B pillars are different. I prefer the other ones.

--Carl
Carl Heideman

Alright already...I have moved on to working on the rest of the rear tub and will put it back on the frame first. Teh front tub has lots of banging and bumping as well (collision damage on left side of nose, and rusty bottom edges), so I have plenty to keep me busy while I am contemplating the upcoming door hanging escapade...hopefully it won't really be 150 times...)

Made progress today -- have the front tub off the frame, and cleaned my garage which is a huge improvement!
AJ Mail

This thread was discussed between 17/03/2006 and 20/03/2006

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