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MG MGA - Hey Vendors

We are headed to the get together in Reno and thought it best to forewarn the vendors that I will talking to them about the rubber seal set for the swivel pins. AND I am not happy.
Yesterday with grease gun in hand and set to put some grease into the front suspension grease fittings. Expecting no trouble but to get the grease into the fitting, I noticed the rubber seals were splitting.
These were sold to me with the assurance they were the best and would not fall apart as all other big outfit vendors were selling.

Gosh to tear apart the front suspension for about $3.50 per seal, ..... and then they fall apart in a few years.


Getting down off my soap box now.
Ray Ammeter

Ray, amen to that. Bought mine from Moss a few yeras back (trunnion seals) haven't driven the car yet and they need changing. Anyone got a good recommendation?
Art Pearse

I have had the same experience with Moss seals. I have changed them twice without the car leaving the garage and they need changing again. As the second set were suppied by Moss FOC I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt especially as I wasn't aware of a better source.

Recently I was told by Todd Clarke that the Moss rubbers were even crap about thirty years ago and more recently I spoke to Cecilia at Scarborough Faire and she said that Moss have incorrectly specified the type of rubber required. Apparently the Moss ones are made of natural rubber which is attacked by oil and grease which, if true, is rather stupid of Moss to say the least.

Cecelia said that her rubber is a nitrile type and does not deteriorate in contact with oil. So I have bought new rubbers from SF including steering rack gaitors but I have not fitted them yet and cannot vouch for their longevity.

One thing I did notice was that the SF swivel pin seals seemed much more substantial than the Moss ones; in fact their weight was twice the Moss weight so assuming the same rubber density they are twice as thick. The Moss seals were vanishingly thin where the curvature is greatest and they had split circumferentially into two halves!

Is there anyone out there who has used SF seals and who can comment on their life? It would be nice to know ...............Mike
m.j. moore

RA, had the same experience with swivel pins a few years ago. Talked with Bob West in the UK at the time and he agreed that some rubbers don't last the life of a rebuild? He sold me some polyurethane type seals (can't remember the precise name) but they weren't rubber. Had no trouble with the new seals after 5 years.
J H Cole

From experience with seals, I know nitrile is perfect for the oils and greases we use. I put my swivel pin seals in over 12 years ago now, they are still perfect and I don't expect any problems either. They cannot split with pressure as the grease just oozes out when the swivel pins are full up.
Pete
P N Tipping

You guy's have this pretty much covered. I did my car over 25 years ago with said seals and before I had finished the car they had split.So this has been happening a long time,long enough to think they'ed had solved the problem.
gary starr

Seems Moss has taken it upon themselves to force us to maintain our front suspensions with continual rebuilds.
JM Morris

Let's name names!
Who has bought trunnion seals from which vendors, that have not deteriorated?
Art Pearse

Pete, Where did you get your seals from? I think I'd settle for twelve years......Mike
m.j. moore

Ditto............ bought mine from the MGOC...within days i had to remove and replace ..after 2 goes I bought some from Brown and gammons ...they look better quality but lets see..Only time will tell.
k klay

Mine have been in for 14 years with no problem. Bought from Bob West.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I got my seals from Cecelia 2 years ago and they still look good. At the same time I got seals from Moss for my MGB and they fell apart within one year. I have since replaced them with seals from Cecelia which are twice the weight and more substanial.

Andy
60 Coupe
67 B
74 GT
55 TF with B fornt suspension and Cecelia seals.
Andrew Preston

Thanks you lot! Now I have to drive my just finished coupe to Reno with one eye on the swivel pin seals!
Peter.
P. Tilbury

I have record of procuring a swivel in seal seal in Feb 2001, and likely installed the seals in May 2001 while installing a new front sway bar, (pre-season maintenance). I bought another seal set in early 2007. My inventory list says they are still in stock. I know I opted NOT to replace the seals in late 2007 or early 2008 when the body was off for sill replacement. That makes the seals on the car more more than 10 years old, and they are still serviceable.

I just checked inventory to be sure, and the seal set is still there. They are still in good condition in the package, now four years on MY shelf. I have never had these seals fail in less than 10 years, even when I was driving the car 15K to 20K miles per year in all sorts of conditions. All of these seals came from Moss Motors.

I believe the bad rubber parts are a spotty situation, more often good than bad, but when we get a bad production batch we hear about it loud and long from all quarters. Furthermore, when some bad rubber parts show up it seems to cross over to multiple part numbers, and we get lots of bad rubber parts all at once. I suspect it has something to do with changing supplier to get a better price (trying not to mention China again). Several years ago I had new master cylinder seals going bad within weeks after installation. About the same time a couple of steering rack boots failed in about 2 years, but the next replacements are doing well several years on.

At one time Moss Motors had a QA procedure for a new batch of rubber seals to put a couple of pieces in grease and oil for a while to see results. Parts with bad rubber will usually swell and go soft within a few days, or sooner. I don't remember which rubber parts Moss was testing at the time, but they did throw out at least one bad batch of something. Sounds like they have been getting lax again and not testing the new batches. It is a miserable situation when the customers have to to the QA testing, and then lots of bad parts end up in circulation before it can be fixed.
Barney Gaylord

I've had the same problem, and brought this to the attention of the British Motor Trade Association, asking for their help. This was in August of 2009. I didn't receive any reply from them....

George
G Goeppner

Got mine from a Moss distributor - so Moss has no record - but they perished inside of two years whilst the car had never left the garage! I will have to replace them prior to ever driving it - or drive it as-is and then replace them this winter...

How does one order from Bob West?

JIM in NH
AJ Mail

I bought a front suspension seal set in 2007 from a Melbourne MG parts seller (there are 5 or 6 of these in Melb. population 4 million) and the swivel link seals have now swelled and gone soft and need replacing.

Problem is, it is hard to blame these parts re-sellers as they cannot test every part but are at the mercy of the manufacturers or large suppliers like Moss. It is difficult to take seals back 5 years later and say you want a refund or replacement!

Only answer really is to buy rubber and high precision parts from major suppliers like Moss/SF/Brown and Gammon who have high stock turn over, have inhouse QA system and don't like bad publicity from forums like this. Comments?

Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I haven't written for years but this thread really hits home. Same story, seals rotted off b4 even using the car. "Gosh to tear apart the front suspension for about $3.50 per seal, ..... and then they fall apart in a few years".

I keep ordering from Moss because I've read time and time again that they buy from the same suppliers as everyone else. I'M glad to hear that Scarborough has different sources and better quality control. I'll start using them as often as I can.

btw, the Moss leather seat kit and cushions are really nice.
Fred H

Just want to resurrect this post. My swivel pin seals are splitting and they were supplied and fitted by Bob West about five years ago. Anyone have an update on the best source of the seals for a long life and decent rubber? The original ones went all soft and squishy but they did not split even after 40 years.

I am tempted to buy a couple of sets from SF and Brown and Gammons and others and compare them.

John

John Francis

It seems the only sensible thing to do is buy from SF (only one reported with no failures ), but then immerse half of them in oil for about 2 weeks, then compare, to save another strip down!
Art Pearse

I think Pete Tipping holds the key to this question. If he could only tell us the source for the ones that have lasted him twelve years (14 years now!).

I've had my SF ones,which are still OK, on for nearly two years in which time Moss ones would have split................................Mike
m.j. moore

O.K....I'll bite...Who is SF?
Thanks
Edward
Edward Wesson 52TD

Edward,
SF is short for Scarborough Faire in Rhode Island, owned by Cecilia (famous for her knowledge of the MGA, and her ability to tell you all she knows!)
They try to buy better quality items, and make many items that others cannot supply. She will also correct faulty products if they are brought to her attention.
I have no association with SF, but thought you should know some of their history. I have purchased parts from them.
Peter.
P. Tilbury

The ones on my car have been in service since December 1999 (13-1/2 years), still doing okay. I bought another set for spares. in March 2007, still in inventory in good condition. Should I put them up for auction? They all came from Moss.
Barney Gaylord

The last set I bought from Moss were rotten at the moment they were delivered. They were sent back and some older ones hunted out in the cellar. That was about two years ago.
dominic clancy

Moss units purchased July, 2008 still look fine. That's not to say that I have not had any issues. Moss part 282-720 SEAL, filler neck, on trunk floor and 171-550 Ignition Wire Separator have repeatedly denigrated in short order.

On a more positive note, a shout-out for Peter at Worldwide Auto (NOS Imports) for a very quick turnaround on a warranty repair for a lever shock. Less than two weeks, no questions whatsoever.

John

jbackman

This thread was discussed between 29/05/2011 and 09/05/2013

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