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MG MGA - MGA Air Conditioning

See the attached picture please. I am experimenting with the idea of installing AC in my MGA. I have acquired the evaportator shown in the pictures, which according to the seller was taken from an MGA coupe that once lived in Arizona. Internet seaches revealed that this Artic Kar unit was used in Jaguars and Porches. It is 11 inches wide and 6 inshes tall at the front and would fit nicely in below the heater control panel.
I would use a small 10x18 inch condensor and and a Sanden 505 (smallest available) compressor. I know from my engineering calculations that this combination would work and that it would frost one out of a coupe and also be able to keep a roadster with the top up comfortably cool.
I bring all of this up for discussion and feedback, because I believe that this set up could be produced for the about the same cost as the Moss MGB AC.
What does this body of knowledge think? With the MGA population ever aging and the comfort of the cars coming in question, I would think this would be a viable addition to the car and would certainly be period correct.


James Johanski

James...an accessory too far for me I find the open mga comfortable here even in OZ summer after a few passive mods. When the compressor cuts in the engine will stall ( a slight exageration ).Personnaly I am always looking for ways to inch up the power and this idea...
Neil Ferguson

Neil,
On a 1500 engine traveling at high way speeds you will feel the compessor "kick in" but not stall the engine. At idle, in order to keep the engine from stalling the engine idle speed must be increased. This can be accomplished with a solenoid actuator as used on 80's versions of carbureted cars with AC. The solenoid just pulls the throttle open slightly. There is enough power in even with a 1500, but you will feel the drain on that power when say climbing a hill.
Some cars in the 80's had cutout switches which would shut down the compressor for these short periods when more power was needed for the road.
I once had (in 1980) two cars that sported AC. One was a Ford Fiesta with an after market AC and the other a Honda Civic four door with factory AC. I lived in Florida, where AC was a welcome accessory. The Fiesta with it's 1300 cc engine struggled and vibrated at idle with the compressor running. It had a Tecumseh piston compressor of about 6 cubic inches. On the road, it was fine.
The Honda Civic on the other hand had a Sanden rotary swash plate compressor of 5 cubic inches and was an absolute joy! You could feel the compressor engage at high way speeds but because the car was front wheel drive and the drive train was more efficient than an MGA with rear wheel drive, the power left over for accessories was sufficient to operate the compressor. The Civic loaded with my family of 4 and all luggage and the cat, would cruise the interstates at 70 mph all day and still get 30 mpg.
I know you Aussies are tough and would never want to be comfortable for long periods of time, so this querry was meant for us softies in the USA. Your candid comments, however, are most appreciated.
James Johanski

James..I am totally humbled and admonished by the rapid and detailed response. I am a professional mechanical engineer ( or was..now chewing the crud!) so I appreciate the detail......but I jesteth about stalling. I do drive long distances and have modified the car so I only finish 'medum rare'. We are softies here in Oz compared to a bronco like your Governor of Texas( next president?).
Good luck with the project and the rotary compressor sounds a lovely piece of kit...much quieter as well and if you could unload it on a hill then.....but I will get on with inching up the power. As you know I am having a blower restored and hope to install later this year and look forward to changing up on the hills over here.
Neil Ferguson

Neil, Good to here back from you. I also am mechanical engineer. Well at least I was before going over to the dark side (Sales engineer) and now interested only in making money.
In regard to your blower project--what kind of blower have you. I have Judson, but I am not sure if I will intall it. I think that the best combination of power and gearing for an MGA is an 1800 with a five speed. I also have an 1800 (3 main) and a five speed that I built. The transmission is the typical type 9 Ford but from a Merkur, so the first gear is 3.3. That coupled to a 3.9 rear axle should make for some nice cruising. Presently, the whole lot is in restoration, with the frame being assembled currently. Once that is complete, I will start experimenting with different engine and power formulas.
If my timing is correct, all of this comes together about the same time I retire from my questionable present occupation.
James Johanski

James...Tis a Judson secured via your good offices last Dec and now with George Folchi..I also managed to get an original valve cover and an oiler...also with george. I have had my 1600cc 61 Mga roadster since 1989 and worked on just about every part ..especially now I am out to pasture. The car is really a delight to drive now and the roads over here are great for traffic free motoring ..strict speed limits but in an mga 110kph feels good and fuel consumption is excellent .
The Judson kit is still with George and I hope to install about Oct..
Significant Maint. and mods.so far affecting performance to get the extra inchs out ..
Really keen and frequent tuning..incl using a gunston for the sparks.
Five speed ford box with short throw gear lever..
Removal of mechanical fan and installed 2pcs 9inch electric pushers with thermo control ( at about 190F).
Using 190/60R15 dunlop 300E tyres on new 60 spoke Daytons.
Aftermarket 3/4in sway bar.

Last one lowered the car slightly and last two in combinaion made a phenominal road holding difference ( like the proverbial on a blamket).
First three gave a bit more umph ( prob only 5 to 10%)and the ability to put it in the right place easily on the twisty and hilly roads I drive on a lot ( yes we have hills over here...even snow).
Good luck with your project...I have also diverted a load of attention to a 72 Jeep CJ7...fitted electronic ignition and soon to have a go at converting to fuel injection. Great life just pursuing interests. The MGA is my beauty and the Jeep is the Beast.
Neil Ferguson

Neil,
So you are the one that the Judson went to. That one I sold upon acquistion of a second one with the valve cover. Were you able to find a valve cover? Have you had a chance to do a dyno or a rolling road?
You and I have much in common, besides us both being of retirement "vintage", I also am a Jeep lover. Present one is a Patriot as I am just a "street Jeeper" and not a rock crawler. I have loved Jeeps as long as MG's. An MGA was my first car and I have owned Jeep Wranglers, CJ7, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee and Liberty. I have a about 1/2 million miles in Jeeps.
The MGA is my greatest love (besides the wife) and while I have done more than 50,000 miles in A's, I do have about 100,000 in various B's.
I would love to visit Australia with my MGA and drive the roads, but there are still so many here that I have not driven--so I know I will always be happy.
Send pic of car with Judson, and if you can please share any performance results.
I am sure Dominic is watching.
BTW if you are going to do a replica gauge per Dominic's instructions, I do have some extra face decals that I made using Dominic's electronic image file. You are welcome to have one or two--just let me know.
Best regards,
The former engineer, known as--
Johanski
James Johanski

James .Engineering is a genetic condition....you can never become ' a former engineer'. My wife thinks all engineers suffer from Aspergers syndrome.
I did find a Judson extended cover on Ebay and got it for a reasonable sum US$410..it is with George now ..along with an original oiler to fit in the cover.
George is still working on it and I am in Italy for a time with my wife,Teresa, pursuing the pleasures ( but not to Berlusconi's standards).
I will be back in Oz end Sept and hope to get the Judson installed soon after....will then forward pics etc. From what I read should get an extra 20% umph if I do it right.
Dominic put me on to your fine self re the Judson and I am eternally grateful to him ( and that's a long time!)
I have secured another manufacturers gauge of same range as the Judson Gauge and plan to install it under the dash centrally in a 2 hole pod as per a design by John Francis on this site..John sent me an excellent drawing a few months ago. He is from the same hallowed profession as ourselves...(pod would be clash with your proposed ac unit!)
The gauge I have is approx 50mm and 0-15psi and 0-30 vac and if you have spare decals that would be phenominal....I had looked at Dominic's site and planned to get my slightly reluctant wife to make( she is a whiz on printing etc...).I have your email from last year so will contact off this site.
Attach a pic of the jeep CJ7....sticks out like a sore .... and fitted with a ford V8 5lt windsor.It is in reaosnable physical nick but I could not drive it over 40kph when I first got it..dangerous...wante to go its own way. Previously owned by a bonehead who was only interested in jacking up the suspension and the sound system. He knew zilch about the car but I wanted it as soon as I saw. I am beginning to get it into decent driveable nick with better and smaller tyres, suspension/steering workover, electronic ignition, soft top ( ex US)...loads to do. Will never hold the road like an MGA but can now drive at 90kph without having a spare pair of jocks with me. Yo..what fun!!




Neil Ferguson

A/C in my coupe would be a nice addition.
We are getting to be softies. Yesterday my wife took us out in "her" G-37. With the top down I turned the air up full and turned on the seat coolers. Cool,both meanings, and comfortable in 90+ degree weather.
I see way to many convertibles top up in the nicest weather. Almost every morning I see a neighbor in her Audi top UP on the way to work, so sad. Whenever Laurie goes out for a drive in the G the top is down. As long as the roads are dry and the sun is shining its a "convertible day"
R J Brown

For the past 10 or so years I owned a Honda S2000. There were three things I absolutely loved about it. The 9k engine, how easily the top went up, and A/C. Having A/C in a rag top is great. Of course space is ALWAYS an issue. :)
D Quinn

James, that is possibly the coolest (pardon the pun) looking accessory I have seen! I would be very tempted to install it and take the hit on horsepower. Of course, upgrading to an 1800 engine might mitigate the engine drain.

I would install that in a heartbeat, I say go for it!
L Wheeler

James

I have almost finished fitting A/C to my MGA Coupe I will post some more pictures in a day or so.

What started out as a paint job and head gasket replacement ended up a full body off back to bare metal body restoration and engine rebuild.

Bryan



Bryan Hawke

James

pic2


Bryan Hawke


James

The condenser fitted snugly against the radiator as can be seen behind the oil cooler.

I had a few dramas when I fitted the Judson as I had to move the radiator forward about 4” (100mm) accordingly it was rebuilt to fit but a stock condenser fitted nicely.

I have fitted twin thermo fans n(not shown in this pic)and a thematic switch in the lower radiator hose .

Nothing was straight forward.

I have the pipe work completed and will post pics later.

More pics of the engine here:

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp1.htm

Regards
Bryan
ccoaldri@bigpond.net.au





Bryan Hawke

Bryan..that is a superb project. Have you shoehorned the whole thing together yet as I would love to see pics of engine bay..on both sides of the radiator? What oomph ( hp ) do you expect and how much will go to the compressor? what is the AC unit?

Neil Ferguson

Hi Neil
The engine is in the car and if you email me I will send more pics.
I have no idea on the hp it will develop as the supercharger is over driven and I haven’t been
able to find any data.
The compressor is a Sanden SD7H13 and the condenser is 450 x 230 and as for the evaporator I will have the details in a week or so when I pull it out to finish off some wiring under the dash.
I am in Geelong and you are welcome to drop in for a look.
Cheers
Bryan
ccoaldri@bigpond.net.au
Bryan Hawke

Hi James



I would be very appreciative if you could tell me how to print the face decals using Dominic's electronic image file to the correct size.



Regards

Bryan


Bryan Hawke

bryan what is the make of the altenator you installed
PETE CERKA

Bryan do you have a photo of the condensor before fiting it into the car? What make and model is it?

Andy
60 Coupe
Andrew Preston

Hi Andrew

Sorry mate, I can’t help with a photo or model, but it was an off the shelf item I would say the one James Johanski refers to is the same size.

All I did was measure the space available, bought what fitted and fabricated my own brackets so the condenser fitting snugly under the top flange of the radiator.

Due to moving the radiator 4” (100mm) forward I had to cut some of the lower pan away to allow the condenser to fit.

I did the same with the twin thermo fans measure the space available and bought what fitted.

I hard piped most of the system and will fit short flexible lines from the compressor to the liquid and suction copper lines.

If you email me I will forward pics.

Regards
Bryan
Bryan Hawke

I am not an engineer but I would reccomed going into the archives and looking up Art Zwist, Ziwst???. He has put a/c in coupes and roadsters He is located some where in Texas. He would be the man to contact to see what can be done.
JEFF BECKER

This thread was discussed between 12/08/2011 and 27/08/2011

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