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MG MGA - MGA Restoration

I'm considering having my MGA, which is not roadworthy, professionally restored.

Does anyone have any tips or advice on th best way to go about it?
Steve

If the car you have is special to you in some way and restoring it is important to you and you are unable to do it your self and cost is no object go for it.
Doing all you can and getting help learning on the way is always better than just blindly turning it over to a shop and writing the checks.
It would cost less to buy a car that is already done than to pay someone to do one right. With the cost of reasonable project cars going through the roof the difference between the two won't cover the cost of paying someone to do the work for you.
A TRUE ENTHUSIAST will take the time to do the work and learn how to do it. You can build a car, learn while doing it, buy all sorts of tools/toys and keep the expenditure under the value of the finished product. The best part of the process is making new friends and sharing the fun.
The jerks with the unlimited funds that make Barret-Jackson what it is are ruining the hobby. They are just a bunch of posers. I hope the MG group never turns into what we have all seen elsewhere.
R J Brown

Steve

Most of us on this site love doing the work ourselves so advice on good professional restores may often be third hand.

There are any number of professional restorers advertised in the MGCC magazine Safety Fast and other similar magazines. Worth contacting a few and getting some quotations with precise details of work to be carried out.

Also a good idea is to actually see (not just photos) examples of their restorations. If you are not in a hurry why not go to the 3 day MGCC International annual gathering and racing at Silverstone 23-25 June and ask some of the owners for their advice. It would also give you the chance to look at a few thousand? MGs of all marks.

For my own part, if I had the budget, I would be going to Bob West. He has been my supplier since 1996 and I have seen many of his restoration - beautiful. But I emphasise, that is my choice and may not be shared by others.

At the end of the day it all depends on the standard of work you want. I would guess that a concours type restoration could set you back anything up to £20K maybe more.
Steve Gyles

RJ,
How are they (BJ'ers)"ruining it"? The "boomers" are looking at the unobtainable cars of their youth and writing the (big!)checks for them now. who loses? We owners see our 'A's appreciate. The restorer sees increased demand and respect for his services. They'll still be "barn finds" and bargains for project cars out there...Who loses?
FWIW,
Doug
D Sjostrom

Come on RJ, stop sitting on the fence. Tell us how you really feel about it!
Andy Bounsall

steve, how bad is the car, that is one question, and how good do you want it to be? the other question.

my mga is very tatty, but its road worthy and has never let me down even on rallies and driving tests. i could have had it restored when i got it, but i just sorted out the running gear etc which is quite easy. ask brown and gammons, bob west etc what it would cost, but remember unless you yourself know what is wrong eg, rusty frame, worn splines and such, then when you give it to somebody to restore, they will find what is bad and its an extra cost you were not expecting.
mog

Once I got the chance to visit Beaulieu, in the village there is a mechanic that restores MG's, not really far from Sussex ?
Renou

Closer than Beaulieu is The Barn - Abingdon Sports Cars Limited, close to Wickham in Hampshire; they specialise in MGAs & MGBs, and have just finished a total restoration of a White MGA - for a guy in the motor trade in London.

Call Martin Cawte (Director) on 01329 835393 - no connection except as a satisfied customer, they look after my BGT V8, and have looked after MGAs, & an RV8 for me in the past.

Nigel Steward

Hi Steve. If you have the money, there is noting wrong with going the "professional" restoration route. However, it is important that you have your car restored not only by a professional, but by someone who knows MGA's intimately well! Like other vehicles, MGA's have their own unique quirks. Restoration "specialists" that have never worked on an MGA are likely to make lots of costly errors, and can potentiall wreck your car! As mentioned previously you also need to decide about how good a job you want done, and how good you can afford. Perfection costs dearly. You also need to decide if you will keep your MG completely stock, or make some improvements to make it more reliable and enhance driveability. (personally recommended) It is important that you tell the restorer EXACTLY what the finished product is going to look like, otherwise you may end up with a very different vehicle than your intention! You might want to look at numerous restored MGA's in your area, and talk to the owners about their level of satisfaction with their restoration, and the shops that did the work. Lastly, If you do much of the labour yourself, this guarantees that the work will be done to your personal level of acceptable quality. Good luck. Glenn
Glenn

Doug,
I have to agree with RJ. The Barret-Jackson people are overvaluing the cars. Sure, those of us that have an older car now may be sitting pretty, but the what they are doing is raising the cost of participating in owning and restoring old cars.
What happens is that once a car hits a certain high price, then ALL of those cars go up in cost (not necessarily their true value, though). Many of these cars are artificially high priced because of the detailed work that went into them. Sure, I could spend $100,000 restoring a Pinto, but is it worth it?
I love the big Healeys, and 10 years ago, I could have bought a nice A-H 3000 for about $20K. Today their going for $60-80K. Are they truely worth it? People with too much money are jacking up the prices and it IS affecting all of us, in that suddenly, the cost of just getting into the market is getting too high for most people.
Jack
Jack Weiss

Are they truely worth it?

Jack, as with everything else, old cars are "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for them. Unfortunately, that may not be what you are willing to pay for them.
Andy Bounsall

Steve,
Call Bob West & talk to him about it. He's very approachable and is always willing to give you the benefit of his knowledge which is considerable, in fact there are not many people in the country who know more about MGAs. As other people have said it depends what the car is worth to you as to how much you spend on it but I think it is worth paying say £20,000 for a proper rebuild rather than paying £10,000 to somebody who doesn't really know what they're doing and then having to get it done all over again. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Phil Parmenter
P Parmenter

I agree RJ and Steve- the best way is to do it yourself , however this is not always possible. I have only a small garage that just houses the MGA with no more room to swing a cat let alone restore a car. I had to buy the best car I could for the money I had and then do all the cosmetic work ( interior, engine bay etc) myself. So Steve, get a professional to do the body work etc. while you do the rest - this will keep the costs down and the car will then feel more like yours when it is "finished". Indeed a car is never actually "finished " - there is always something else needed - which is part of the fun - look at the threads on this BBS. You don't have to do it all in one go . Keep the costs down by getting the essential engine and running gear jobs done to get the MOT and then use it as a rolling restoration. Also , join a local club, there are always willing hands there to help and there may be someone who has the garage space available in which to work on the car before the professional starts. Cheers Cam - (secretary West Lancashire MG Owners - www.westlancsmg.co.uk)
Cam Cunningham

Hi Steve

Best of luck with your project. I think that if you have the interest in doing it yourself, then have a go. You can always pay someone afterwards, if you can't get the results you want - and you may save yourself a fortune if you can do it. I've started on an MGA Coupe and I've found several books to be of good value and are excellent references. The Original MGA by Anders Clausager; MGA Restoration Guide by Malcolm Green; How to Restore Classic Car Bodywork by Martin Thaddeus, and also by the same author, How to Paint Classic Cars. I've picked all these up on the internet at a fraction of the retail prices.

Regards
Dave
D Jacobs

I agree with the do-it-yourself idea. Mine was a "barn find" complete with mouse nest on the heater shelf. The mice now take up residence in my parents home. Probably should have left the care outside until it was cleaned out.
Anyway, MGA is pretty easy to work one. I was a nubie 20 something just out of college when I did a body off restoration. When I was done, it looked like it was restored by a 20 something but it ran and I could have fun with it. Now I am a 40 something and I need to redo the paint.
The best part of doing it myself (5 years working saturday and part of sunday each week) was that I KNEW what was done. As suggested above, having someone else doing it, you don't always know.
I suppose a good compromise would be for you to take it apart so you know what is needed and then hire out the jobs that need done. This would also give you and idea of what you are getting yourself in for. If the frame is badly rotted, you may want to reconsider the project.

My 2 cents.

Dennis, Arizona
Dennis

Andy,
Yes and no. I know in a free market society, one "should" get what the market will bear, but that doesn't nean its "worth" that much. A high priced, one of a kind car will cause all of the other of those cars to rise in price, even though they aren't "one of a kind". Someone could easily spend $60,000 restoring an MG, but is it "worth" it? Someone might buy it, someone who is willing to spend too much for the "best", but that doesn't mean all the other MG's are worth more, even though that $60K car will cause ALL MG's to rise in value. It becomes a benchmark, even though it is an inflated price.
There is an economic theory, I forgot what its called, that says that in almost all auctions, the winner pays too much (as compared to the true value of the product). With the B-J auctions, you have a lot of very rich people buying things based, often, on emotion. Yes, they are smart and shrewd people, but they get caught up in the atmosphere and excitememnt and overspend. That price though becomes a new mark for all of those cars. I always liked the '58 Bel Air...big and ugly, it was the transition from the upright finned '57 to the side slanted finned, '60. Nothing really special about the car, no new technology, but today, if restored by certain pros, it can fetch over $100K. But is the car actually worth it? THAT car might be, but unfortunately, it causes ALL 58's to go up, even though nothign has changed. The old classics, cars from the 1920's and 30's once commanded a higher premium because they were special. Many were rare in actual production numbers and rarer even in survival. Most of the more expensive ones were custom build by hand, with specific options for that first owner. Each was truely one of a kind. Today's cars are mass produced and were a dime a dozen when they came out, even today, many are still common.
I could buy a lower middle class houses in a lower middle class neighborhood, gut it and put in all new hardwood and tile floors, granite countertops and stainless steel appliances. I could spend $300/sqft, but is the house worth it? It could truely have $600,000 worth of work in it, but if the surrounding houses are worth $50K, is it "worth" it? Someone might buy it, therefore increasing the value of the surrounding homes, causing the lower middle class people to pay higher property taxes. That is what is happening here. An artificially high price on a few top cars is causing the participation in this, once, passionate hobby become too costly for the average person.
Sorry about the long rant...lol... I just hate seeing people being priced out of the market like this.
Jack
Jack Weiss

I see that Steve is still absorbing all the advice given and he is yet to tell us his decision. I have not seen anyone suggest the compromise of using a professional only where you lack the expertise/equipment. You can do a great deal of the work (and get the satisfaction from it) without doing it all. For instance: you can disemble the whole car, carefully taking pictures and annotating and storing you parts, then take the frame and body (in one or two pieces) off to a professional for the welding and straightening and painting. It is these jobs that need the most equipment and expertise. Similarly, you can do some of the work on the engine and running gear, but send the big bits out to a professional for machining. Then comes the job of reassembly - this takes a lot of time but gives the greatest rewards. You can to most of the work with normal tools but perhaps treating yourself to a decent step of spanners and sockets. And, as a special bonus, you can get advice from the experts on this forum ever step of the way. Finally you'll save a ton of money.

Dan
Dan Barton

Dan

In my post above I did use the professional where I lacked experience, i.e, the top coat.

Steve

I paid about £800 for the professional to put the top coat on and finish. He also inspected and advised me on all my work from strip down thru etch primer, repair work, lead loading and undercoats. He would only take the 28ish panels off my hands when he considered my work fit for purpose. I considered his charge good value and he has since looked after me well as I have reccommended others to him.

Some of my other bodywork costs were: £130 for main tub strip down, Each wing £20 and front valance £10. All the aluminum panels I stripped with paint strippers at even classes. Other small body coloured panels I stripped in my own garage.

All painting I did in a proper booth with full breathing apperatus. This is a must in my opinion. Your health is paramount. At evening classes I regularly saw professional staff painting without any breathing protection. They will suffer later in life I am afraid to say.

If you plan your restoration you do not have to lose out on too much driving. I did my complete dismantle and rebuild in 16 months. The body took from late August through to end of April, but this also included time spent on many other items of the rebuild. If I was to put my mind to it again and concentrate purely on the body I reckon I could lift the tub October and have the car back on the road in February/March. It all comes down to programme management.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I guess I'm "A FAKE ENTHUSIAST" to paraphrase RJ, because I did have my car restored professionally. It was that or (because of the line of work I'm in) wait another 20 years until I retired to ever even think about being able to drive it again. I have no misgivings, I know that the job was done right, and with the recent bump up in value that MGAs have had I could probably get my money out of it if I sold it (which I would only do under duress so who the hell cares if I paid more that it's worth on the market today -- I don't).

I love the car, I love working on it, and I love driving it, but I felt terrible the 12 years it sat under a tarp wasting away because I didn't have the time or facility to perform a full restoration myself. Now I feel great -- money well spent on a worthwhile project.

If you're interested, there are pictures here:

http://www.tildebang.com/mg/
David Breneman

Excellent website David - wish I had a photo record like that of mine being restored- Cheers Cam - (another "fake" enthusiast- with another sunny day outside and about to get the A ready for a fresh air drive for the 3rd consecutive day )
Cam Cunningham

David

I agree with Cam, nicely catalogued restoration. I wish I had taken more photographs, but digital camera were only just coming in in the mid 90s and were too pricey for me.

I also like your website layout, beats the **** out of mine. Did you do it yourself? It's along the lines that I want mine at issue 2.

For Steve's information this was my rebuild as described above. Most of the photos that I did take were of the bodywork.

http://freespace.virgin.net/stephen.gyles/rebuild_in_more_detail.htm

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi Cam and Steve -

Thanks for the kind words! Yes, I did the web site myself, all in the Unix vi text editor.
(It's interesting, Steve, that we both found the term "sorry shape" an appropriate one to describe the interiors of our cars! :-) ) It started out on my Linux workstation at work, as co-workers would ask me how the restoration was going, I could give them the URL and they could look for themselves. It got so big I decided to "go public" with it. I decided to just lay it out like a book, with one page following on to the other, so people could follow the story along until they got bored, put it down, then come back later if they wanted and continue on. I made one "template" web page then just plugged new pictures and text into it as I went along. I don't have a digital camera, however. All the pictures were 35mm prints scanned in with a rather cheap flatbed scanner. I wish I'd had a better monitor at the time, because now that I have an LCD one, I can see that the contrast of some of the pictures is too low. Now I have a Dimage Scan Dual IV film scanner, so hopefully the "MG Adventure" pages will look alot better as time goes on.
David Breneman

I am all for being involved as much as possible in the restoration of your own car. However, having it in pieces for 10 or 20 years seems like such a waste of good driving years. I did what I could on mine, and left the rest to people who had more talent and skill than me. Yes, it costs more, but I was on the road in just over 2 years. I would not trade these last few years of driving just to be able to say "I did it all." After all, it is the driving of these cars that has the most satisfaction to me. If you can't drive it, why have it?
Ed Bell

This thread was discussed between 28/04/2006 and 08/05/2006

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