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MG MGA - Rocker cover plates

Some time ago when perusing Cecelia's catalogue I noticed that she had listed the 'MG' rocker box plate with the 'MG' in maroon against the aluminium background. I think she said when I queried it that all plates for MGAs were maroon and the MGBs were black.

When I bought mine ages ago, from Moss I think, it was the 'usual' black.

In Clausager it's difficult to tell the colour for some but most plates appear to be black.

Also I've been looking at MGA pictures on Ebay for quite a while now and I would say that most 'MG' plates are in black. So far I've seen three pictures where there were definitely maroon coloured plates and the interesting thing about these three was that the adjacent Weslake patent plate was a bit different in that the outside border was painted black rather than being left aluminium.

The picture shows one of these which was from a 1600 chassis number 74912

So I wonder then if there was a change later on in production maybe to a different supplier or were all of them originally like this and the ones we commonly see are incorrect reproductions?

PS Can you tell I've finished my restoration and have nothing better to think about! .................................Mike


m.j. moore

Hi,

As i can remember al the mga's had a maroon plate, mine is 74904, and also had a maroon plate
If you looking for a maroon one, let me know I have a few left

serge

http://car-identification-plate.eu/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXcYgvvOua0

serge

Hi Mike
My '57 has maroon - congratulations on not having anything better to do - enjoy while it lasts
Bayard
Bayard DeNoie

Hey Guys were your maroon MG plates original as far as you know and if so did you have the patent plate with the black surround. I got a maroon MG plate from Cecelia but I haven't fitted it because I've not yet found a supplier for the patent plate. As far as I know no one does them...........................Mike
m.j. moore

Has anyone tried these guys http://carclassic.biz/ for plates. They are described as decals but they look like plates.
John DeWolf

75236 with maroon. Wow, the car described in the thread is only 8 numbers from Serge's! I thought that mine was close. All three were probably built within a couple of weeks.
Don Carlberg

My valve cover is original and both the MG and patent plates are maroon
Bayard DeNoie

John, From the picture on their website the MG plate is black and the patent plate has the aluminium surround. I've asked them if they have others

Don, What is your patent plate like? Does it have black or aluminium border?

Bayard, I've never seen a maroon patent plate - Do you have a picture. Thanks.......Mike
m.j. moore

Hope this works... Notice the plate on the shelf is black - the plates on the valve cover are maroon


Bayard DeNoie

Baynard,
Interesting oil filter housing. I have never seen one with the bolt head at the top.
By the way, only the MGA label is maroon. The patent one is always black, as far as i know.
Peter.
P. Tilbury

My patent plate is showing its age, but it appears to be different shade of maroon with an aluminum border (plate color).
Don Carlberg

Mike, I think part of the confusion arrives from Moss Motors who sells the black patent and MG plates, (IMHO, wrongly) claiming they are for both the MGA and MGB.

My engine rebuilder bought and installed the set from Moss but I have purchased a red MG plate from SF and plan on replacing the black one this winter.
Larry Wheeler

I have 3 MGA rocker covers and an amazing variety of plates.

One pair is modern Moss hence is not really relevant, except as a reference point.

One cover doesn't have an MG plate but has a Patent plate that is a transfer, and it is black characters on a light grey background. I thought/think this transfer is probably a replacement BUT the cover has no holes for rivets either so perhaps it is original.

On the other cover MG is in red but the M and G are a far finer script than the Moss one in black. The Patent plate on this one is aluminium on Black but there is aluminium surround as per Moss, i.e. it black to the edge.

All these are quite early. The sources are my 2 1500s bought in 1969 and 1972. One is off a 1600 Mk 1 engine that I bought in 1970, and the final one is off a factory recon 1500 unit that I bought in 1971. Yes I know that I am a cover short, either buried or scrapped.

Incidentally the cover that has now got the Moss plates on is made out of polished metal (I think stainless steel) and presumably is a third party product to make your engine bay smarter.

Oh by the the layout of patent numbers is quite different on each plate/transfer.

I am sure this just increases confusion.

Paul

Paul Dean

Transfer sticker on a cover with no rivet holes is probably an MGB assembly.
Barney Gaylord

Photo from my 1960 1600 (75236. Same rocker cover since I bought the car in 1973.


Don Carlberg

I agree it's a confusing picture but on balance I guess the maroon MG plate is the one to go for.

I've photographed my black MG Moss plate bought in 2004 alongside the one from SF bought a year ago showing the finer features of the maroon version.

The choice on the Weslake Patent plate is easier to make as only the black/silver border version is available.

There are some minor differences in layout and font size between the Moss and SF Patent plates but there is also a spelling mistake on the Moss plate (see pic.) where Harry Weslake's surname appears as Westlake!

So, like Larry, the next time my rocker cover is off I'll change both Moss plates for Cecelia's.

Thanks for all your help...................Mike

PS. There is a fascinating brief article on Harry Weslake, automotive engineer, on the internet which is well worth reading. (His two patents which are referred to on the plate are for improvements in design of the combustion chamber and the later one is for improvements in induction system design). I didn't know he was the guy who improved the Bentley engine in the mid 1920s which resulted in Bentley taking the first four places in the 1929 Le Mans 24hr race :-

www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/_people/weslake.php



m.j. moore

Following on from above I thought that I would look at early photos mainly from original road tests. The best one though is of a 1600 Mk 2 in Piet Olyslager's 1963 book.

For Patent Plate they confirm bare aluminium edge and characters on dark (presumably black) as per most of photos above, and as per the Moss one that I bought a few years ago. It only seems to be me who has 2 other variants. (Barney is right regarding the one with a transfer being off an MGB or perhaps some other B series engine as on checking it also has no evidence of ever having a metal cap).

For MG Plate the B&W photos don't help on colour but they certainly confirm the characters should be finer than the Moss product. The red one in Mike's photo look right, (and it matches one of the early one that I have).

Paul
Paul Dean

I firmly believe that they were all black when they were new, but all apart from late MkII were anodised black. This fades to a dark copper or "red" in a few years. I have experience of the same fading on black aluminium anodised window frames. If you look closely at an original plate you will see what I mean, the finish has an almost transparent metallic appearance. The later MG plates appear to be painted or at least coloured in a different process and are still black on original cars.
Neil McG

Hi Neil,
We are probably belaboring this discussion...but if your theory were true, wouldn't all the aluminum plates have changed and not just the two on the valve covers? The two on the valve covers have been maroon since I purchased the car in 1966 and all the others were black and remain black to this date
Bayard DeNoie

I have just painted up an original rocker cover and fitted the black plates thinking they were correct. I have not put it on the car yet - so SERGE if you have a spare maroon one I would appreciate buying it ( I bought one of your excellent chassis plates a couple of years ago)- cheers Cam
Cam Cunningham

Bayard, 47 years same car ownership must be close to being a record for this forum.
I hope you continue to use it -- the forum I mean..................Mike
m.j. moore

Hi Bayard, you are absolutely right, but there are no other such plates on the car! The chassis plates for instance use a completely different way of manufacture.
Neil McG

Neil, Why should,for example, the patent plate on the heater shelf and the one on the rocker cover be made differently? I agree the latter one will see higher temperatures in life. Perhaps Serge can enlighten us here if he has had both sorts made................Mike
m.j. moore

No reason really, except maybe the rocker cover plates are just labels and can be as cheap as possible. The chassis plate has more legal implications and should be harder wearing and more difficult to reproduce?

In any case they are certainly made from different material (chassis plate is thicker) and a different process. The black on the chassis plate is etched into the surface whereas the rocker cover plates are anodised? or printed? on the surface.
Neil McG

I've seen another 1600 roadster on Ebay now which has the black surround patent plate and a maroon MG plate. The owner has just given me the car number as 76916 which puts it a month or two later than the one in my first picture (see pic.)


m.j. moore

That last photo is not an original as the vent tube has been modified to "L" shape. This puts the originality of the ID plates in question, IMO.

I can't remember 100%. I seem to recall that I had one rocker patent plate that was relief-etched, not silkscreened, similar to the VIN ID plates. This may have been 25 or more years ago. I do know that I had an MGA heater body that had an etched patent tag.

Might this be another version of the rocker plate? Maybe I am mis-rembering this small detail. I have a photo that "may" show this. However I have to squint real hard with one eye and close the other and then imagine what I am seeing. It is not a real convincing photo. Comments? Confirmation ? Total BS?
Chuck Schaefer

I just checked mine again and both plates are smooth and maroon. See my photo a dozen or so posts above this one.
Don
Don Carlberg

I have a 1500 that is the "maroon" colour on both plates, although I maintain it looks more bronze than maroon. I also have an original MkII that is black. Apart from the colour difference they are identical in finish and appearance. I still believe the 1500 has faded, it is way too light now to be original, but what colour has it faded from...?
Neil McG

Mike

The rocker cover with black surround is what I have on one of my pre 1972 rocker covers (correct vent pipe). I wish I could remember which rocker cover came with which engine. Although mine are quite early the earliest I got one is 1969 hence there is a very good chance most if not all my engines were recon.

Obviously the black surround Patent Plate, see picture, was commonly used in the early days but probably on rebuilt engines.

Paul


Paul Dean

This thread was discussed between 26/09/2013 and 03/10/2013

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