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MG MGA - Roof fitting

I am trying to fit my Moss soft top to the car. Last operation before safety inspection and on the road.
I have covered the front bar.
I found the steel bar at the rear was a few thou too thick to seat in the body clips so had to grind it down a bit.
I have the top in place , all I have to do is pull it tight and staple it down.
It seems to be quite a struggle to get it far enough forward. I guess the front finished edge at the corners should reach to the bottom of the wooden bow (top of the metal frame). I can only do this if the rear bow is pulled forward to the next bow (and pulling it back after stapling the front) but this is contrary to Barney who says put it in its final position above the rear window pane.
Another thing is that there would seem to be a gap at the rear of the sidescreens which I dont think will close even if I get the top stretched.
Any comments? This is a 1600 and that's the top I ordered.
I'll post some pics next.
Art Pearse

This is the gap at the sidescreen, top unstretched, rear bow in rear position.



Art Pearse

Gap at front. Rear bow in forward position, top stretched
Should it be stretched further?


Art Pearse

Rear bow in forward position, roof stretched as in last picture, still a good gap at the rear of sidescreen.



Art Pearse

Art, I had a similar concern when I fit my hood and I wondered whether it had been made correctly. I couldn't seem to be able to pull it far enough forward. I tried to think of factors which would prevent it.

I wondered if my hood frame was too high because I had replaced both side panels behind the B-posts. I measured the height of the top hole in the body where the hood is fixed and it was too high but only by 1/2" or so.
However I was sufficiently worried to make up two patching panels with the three holes and caged nuts with the intention of cutting the old ones out and rewelding.
In the end I abandoned this because of the work involved and the fact that the car had been painted with trim panels, etc. fixed.

(Now that the hood is finished and I put a spirit level from front to back across the first and second bows the second bow is just a bit too high. I'm sure the car designers would have made these two bows perfectly horizontal.)

I made up a new rear hood bar from 1" x 1/8" strip which I made 3" shorter than the original (33" instead of 36") so that the hood could be pulled further forward and I even cut notches in it about 1/4" to 3/8" deep so that the bar would be positioned that much further forward. Even this didn't seem to be enough.

In the end I thought I had to get the vinyl so flexible that it would stretch forward so I put a 2Kw fan heater in the car with the hood up and with the 'windows' closed up with sheets. Then two helpers pulled frantically on the front while I tacked it to the wooden hood bar.
We did all this with my modified notched rear steel bar in place but after the hood was tacked I replaced the bar with the original which made the hood even tighter.

As it stands now the hood looks good and perfectly free of creases. Even the creases in the Vyback windows have gone. However the window flap at the front which is cut at an angle to match the windscreen rake is still 1-1.5" short of the windscreen. (see picture 2) This could be incorrect dimensions being used when cutting out the hood but I'm going to have to live with this.

I've taken a picture (picture 1) showing my hood at the rear of the door. Have you got your press stud in position that fixes the flap bottom to the hood frame?

Just in case your hood has been made incorrectly see if the distance from the left to right seam at the third bow position to the seam 2.5" from the rear edge is 16" . I'm not saying mine is gospel but it would be nice to compare.

..................Mike





m.j. moore

Picture 2


m.j. moore

Thanks Mike. I will check that dimension.
I too replaced the hood frame mounts, but the old holes were used to locate the new and I'm sure I got it right. The hood sides come down and just touch the rear fenders at the piping.
Nice idea about notching the bar. I'll keep that in reserve.
I'm going to put the old hood on (what's left of it) to check the gaps and see if I got a bad new one.
Also will try the heater. Shop was about 15 C yesterday.

I managed to complete the RHS sidescreen, sewing the vinyl cover and attaching it with glue. I used "Gloozit" which is a bit like slow drying balsa cement - clear and full of solvent. My vinyl has a synthetic backing. I glued it first to the outside, then thrimmed it and folded it inside, using wood wedges to hold it while the glue dried. Then inserted the front polycarb pane, then the old channel and new polycarb rear pane. Also fabbed a new SS retention clip. New 5/32 x 1/2 pop rivets for the brackets.
I'll post some pics.
Art Pearse

I cut out 3/8 notches in the flat bar, so that should give me 3/8 more at the front and close the rear of door gaps a bit.
In doing this, I noticed the pockets for the flat bar anchors were spaced 26-5/8 on the top and 27-3/8 on the car, so it is possible the material is jamming in the anchor slot and not coming forward enough. May have to cut the pockets open a bit more.
I offered up the old top and it has the fasteners still. The cover reaches to within 1/2" of the door opening, ie there is 1/2" of the corner piece visible.
This seems to be the same as the new cover, but before the slots are tried. I will also do a mild trim of the ends of the bar, shorten by 1/2" each tip, and round it a bit more.
Art Pearse

Same thing with old roof. Slot pocket opening on 26-5/8 spacing, car at 27-3/8. Why?
What to do ?
Art Pearse

I also found this: my hood bar pockets were 1" less in width, at about 26.5", than the chrome retainers. At the time I thought that a previous owner may have repositioned the retainer holes for some reason and I recall getting my head in the boot and looking for any evidence of this but there wasn't any.
In the end I had to widen the slots in the vinyl. My vinyl slots are now 3-4" wide. Fortunately you can't see anything when the hood is up.
It's always made me wonder from where all the various hood manufacturers get their plans. I can only assume that a new hood manufacturer setting up would buy a hopefully original hood take it apart and make drawings this way. But this way is fraught with dangers because the hood may not be original and over the years the dimensions could have altered.
I also imagine that if you were to approach Moss and I were to approach PJM Motors with a new dimension for the slot spacing they would both take no notice. ......................Mike


m.j. moore

Mike, looks like just a strip off the rear of the hood.
Do you think the incorrect spacing prevented your top from pulling forward properly?
Art Pearse

With the notches cut in the bar and the pocket holes widened, the chrome retainers can just be seen at the rear of the cover.
Art Pearse

Sorry Art that picture was a bit difficult. Here is one taken further away. I had folded back the rear edge.
I don't think the distance between the pockets had any effect on my hood fitting. The thing that made, by far, the biggest (if not the only) difference was getting the vinyl very warm and pulling really tight. We had to pull so much that I feared that either the vinyl would tear or the stitches would pop. After I had replaced the original hood bar the hood itself was virtually impossible to erect. I overwintered the car with the hood in place and now it's reasonably easy to put up.

Did you have your car in two halves during the restoration? I did with mine and I remember wondering at the time how close together to assemble them and I posted a thread asking if there was a precise measurement for the cockpit length, the distance down the centre line between front and rear scuttles. Carl Heidemann replied and said he aimed for 34.5 +/- 0.25" when piecing them together. During my struggle with the hood I thought maybe I had positioned the front and back clips too far apart but when I measured mine it was 34" dead so it should have been easier by 1/2" or so to get the hood to reach the front.
When my hood is raised I've measured the distance from the edge of the boot opening to the back edge at 1 3/8" then moving upwards the width of the edge binding is 7/16", then it is 1 7/8" to the left/right bottom seam plus a further 16" to the seam which is in line with the third bow.
I wouldn't worry about the chrome retainers showing because I'm sure you will be able to replace your original bar when you've finished.......................Mike




m.j. moore

Mike, yes I did have to separate the two halves due to complete rot of the F section, but it was all jigged up to preserve the door fits etc.
With my notched bar, the distance from boot lid opening to rear of the cover is 1-3/4". From there to the seam at the top of the window is 17-1/4". You seem to have an extra inch to that!.
That said, I don't think bringing the back any further forward will help. I can get the front stretched if I raise the rear bow backwards for now, but the limitation now seems to be the rear sides where the lift the dots are. If I come forward more, these points will be outside the cover. The cover will only reach so far as to come 1/2-3/4" away from the door edge, and this gap widens as you go to the top of the sidescreen.
Argh!
Art Pearse

Well, I got the old car heater out and ran it for 2 hours, nice and warm inside.
Pulled the front fwd with the rear bow forward and stapled the front.
The trim strip is to be stapled between the two rows of piping, but for the life of me I can't see either of my staple guns reaching down between (manual one and electric one). They don't have a "nose" on them
How to do it?
Art Pearse

Art
I used carpet tacks there, and a narrow punch to drive them home when the head reached the hidem strip
dominic clancy

OK, good idea. Thanks
Art Pearse

Dominic, did you drive the tacks in with the front bow on the windscreen, or did you detach it first?
I'm a little concerned about damaging the screen.
Art Pearse

Did a test try with carpet tack on the trim strip. No good, the head is too big and it catches the piping and squashes it.
Art Pearse

You have to peel the two strips apart so the tack goes underneath them and reseals to hide the head of the nail completely

dominic clancy

I used Challenge gimp pins for the hidem banding. I don't have any left but they were about 1mm diameter, with a 2mm or so diameter head and japanned black..............mike
m.j. moore

Art; I used canoe tacks, they are brass available at Lee Valley. They are much the same as the carpet tacks. If you drive them in until they are close to but not touching the hidem, you then can use a wide blade flat screwdriver to spread the hidem at the tack then drive them in and the hidem will cover the heads. Since the canoe tacks are brass they do not rust or stain later.

Hope this helps.
C.R. Tyrell

Thanks. I will try the brass tacks.
Art Pearse

I purchased a very inexpensive air-stapler on Amazon, made for upholstery work, for doing the "hide-em" tacking , it uses the 1/4" stainless staples....Worked perfectly....(On my TD). It has a long nose, and gets between the hide-em strips.
I seem to remember that I paid less than $30 , including shipping.
Edward
E B Wesson

This thread was discussed between 31/05/2014 and 08/06/2014

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