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MG MGA - Upgraded MGA radiator

Hi,

I'm in the process of putting in a 5 main 2 liter upgraded MBG enging in my "A", and was wondering what alternatives there were to the stock MGA radiator? (My concern is that the stock rad will not be able to handle the additional heat. I'll also be running a small oil cooler, and plan on using the water wetter product.) I'm not averse to some MINOR modifications of the mounting points for the radiator, but am also looking for something that will not break the bank. Any suggestions / pictures / links are greatly appreciated. As well, does anyone know if the stock MGB rad (early or other) would be sufficient, and fit?

Cheers, Jason
Jason

I wanted to install a thicker core but there was no room for it without cutting back the front shelf since the fan was already close to the radiator. Instead I installed a 2-row MX core on the stock MGA tanks. Cooling was helped greatly but for a 2-liter engine you may want more rows.
Steve Simmons

The MGA radiators available at the moment (Moss?) seem to be very efficient, but there is one major quality issue with them - the outlets are smaller diameter than the original, so although the hoses fit, the original style of clip does not achieve a small enough diameter to seal correctly, so a jubilee clip has to be used instead. It's a pity that such a mistake was made. Cooling properties are excellent (even with a SC I can't get my car above 70C), and in cold weather I ahve to block part of the radiator completely to get any increase in temperature over 50C at all.
dominic clancy

Dominic

Is that Moss Europe or Moss USA? And are they the same or different?

Thanks

Larry
58A
Larry Hallanger

To get better cooling you need to either cut the front 'shelf' where the oil cooler sits back, or use a special radiator that has a bottom tank that fits above that shelf.

The top tank is double the thickness of the bottom tank - by recoring using a double thickness lower tank you can end up with a stock looking top tank and a very effective rad.

I've done that on my Twincam race car but did cut the shelf back.

http://www.rhodo.citymax.com/i/non-rhodo/MGA_engine_compt.jpg

You can put the rad a bit lower and right up against the bonnet catch.

If you want stock appearance, and don't want to cut the shelf, the shallower rad seems the only way to go. Make it so it sits just above the shelf and with the double thick modern core you should still pick up a bunch of cooling capacity.
Bill Spohn

Larry, I can't imagine that there is more than one source at any time for these things, the volume is too small to merit double sourcing. The manufacturing of the one I have seems to have been done in China, but the quality is very good apart from the bore of the inlets.
dominic clancy

Start with a checkup of the normal problems with "modern" MGA cooling, commonly caused by negligence or missing parts. http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_101.htm

Then ask why MGAs overheat today when they didn't do that when they were new. I drove MGAs for 20,000 miles in the late 60's with never a hint of any overheating.

One day I would like to try an original type cell core radiator.
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_100.htm
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/cooling/cool_100a.htm
Barney Gaylord

I just had my radiator recored for the Twin Cam. There were approximatly 125 vertical cooling rods in the old core. The new core has 155 rods. Same overall width. Talk to a radiator shop person for their advise.
Paul Hanley

I'm with Paul,
I did the same several years ago for our MKII racer.

Most good radiator shops have a catalogue from the various manufacturers. If you ring them and ask what brand's they use, you could probably find one on the web. here's an example.

http://www.gmradiator.co.uk/catalogue.htm

If you find one please post your results and maybe barney can add this to his radiator pages, which are great.
Barney, perhaps if we found out and posted the original core dimensions, you could offer a table of modern alternatives...

I'm still interested in this, as my Twin Cam radiator will require an upgrade soon.

The final core I choose was about 1.5-2 inches longer and all that length must be at the bottom or you won't be able to shut the bonnet.
The modern core's have many more tubes and are much more efficient also. They possibly don't last as long, but there's always a down side. I seem to remember the core that we got in Australia was thicker also.

Since you've fitted an 1800, make sure you either use the plastic fan, or convert to electric, but fit them behind the radiator so you don't block the flow from the front.

Hope this helps.
<MARK>
Mark Hester

Barney makes a point worth repeating. Many ills experienced by our cars involve some undiagnosed condition that didn't apply when they were new.

I have seen people put new radiators in their cars and still overheat because they never thought to check and see if the water jackets were clean - turned out they were full of crud half way up the cylinders.

That sort of thing can only be dealt with properly by boiling the block and using long tools to scrape out any remaining crud (giving you plenty of time to curse the previous owner who was too cheap to buy good antifreeze with anti-corrosion additives).
Bill Spohn

Anyone find a core that fit's yet?

Or at least the dimensions.

Cheers <MARK>
Mark Hester

i have a 4 core brass cooper unit that was in my car when it was raced, it fits the stock bolt points for an a, just has twice as thick a core. i removed it and all the metal around it to install my v6, it has been dipped and checked over so no issues , was going to put it on ebay with some other parts soon but if you are intertsed send me a pm and i can take some pictures, jim
james madson

My MGA Moss radiator I received is approx 1-11/16" thick. I believe the originals may have been 2" thick. Contact Bob West - I believe he can supply 'THE' MGA radiator.

Pete
Pete Tipping

Jason,

I have owned several MGA's over the years and they have all run hot in their original configuration.

My latest project has been a Mk2 for vintage racing and after spending some money on the engine over the winter, I wanted to make the cooling issue go away.

First I toyed with putting in a later MGB rad, but the cost of a new one was still a bit high in my mind for the performance it would provide and going through an old one was not worth the time or money.

Next I thought about having Griffin Thermal Prod make a custom rad. Whoa- talk about money ~$600.

I finally set upon a scirocco drag race crossflow/bipass alum rad made by Afco sold through Summit racing for $229. the part number is AFC-80107N. There are a few diff varients with diff part numbers. I chose this one because it has 1.25 in/outlets and no filler. For filling I use an inline filler in the top hose which also makes it easy to bleed air from the system. I also use a expansion tank fitted to the heater shelf.

This is a by pass rad which means that the inlet and outlet are both on the same side. I went to Napa and looked at thier picture book for the molded hoses that would be required to make a bottom hose since it had to come around from the pass side to the water pump. Not a big deal.

Mod's to make it fit were in my mind minimal though some purists may be chewing on their chair as they read this. I had to cut back the shelf about 1". Remove the small bit of ductwork that accepts the fresh air hoses on the drivers side (LHD). Remove the ductwork on the pass side and cut out about 3" of the panel that holds the ductwork just above the top mounting hole which needs to be retained. Drill two small holes in the bracket that the orig rad bolts to. It's really not as bad as it sounds.

The best part is I can switch on the electric fan and watch the temp actually drop!

Total investment including fan was about $300.

If you want pix email me.

j
JohnB

I'll second the comments about the overheating being due to caked up cooling passages.

I have fitted a 1622 engine and Judson SC to my car. This would appear to all to be a recipe for major overheating - not so.

The old rad was starting to seep water at the edges (traces of green corrosion 18 years after being recored) so I also fitted a brand new (Chinese) rad. (incidentally, when I restored my car originally, I cleaned about 500g of radiator sealant out of teh heater core, so if the rest of the engine was like that (I fitted a used one as the engine I had was seized), all the passages must have been similarly blocked).

The new 1622 engine has been throroughly cleaned out when reconditioned, and the head from Oselli is also as clean as a whistle .

The result - I cannot get the car up to operating temp without blanking the rad if the ambient temp is less than 10C. At 20C, the temp sits happily at 70C no matter what I do, and if I am sitting in a traffic jam, it MAY hit just below 80C.

My judgement - if the engine has never been cleaned out, it will be as furred up as yor kettle would be after 50 years. The kettle will not heat water efficiently, so why does anyone expect the engine to stay cool ?

I am sure that some descaler or muratic acid could be used to clean out the scale, but I don't know what it does to aluminium, so be careful.

dominic clancy

This thread was discussed between 21/03/2006 and 31/03/2006

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