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MG MGA - Wheels and tires ...again

Happy new year all.

I am soon to be actively trying to purchase a set of wheels and tires for my 1960 project. I looked a bit in the archives and at the mgaguru site. These are my conclusions so far....

1. I want Dayton tubeless painted wheels.

2. The closest match for the overall diameter is a 165R15.

3. Wider options for the same overall diameter are 175-75-15, 185-70-15 and 195-65-15.

4. The 185-70-15 is a relatively scarce size.

Now. What looks good on the car? I like the idea of a wider tire. What size wheels are necessary for each of the tire sizes? How wide can you go without a. having the car look like a freak, and b. having interferance issues with wheel wells, etc. How big a wheel/tire combo fits in the spare tire slot in the trunk?

I am anxiously awaiting your feedback.

JM Greenlee

BTW,

My 66 MGB has 185-70-14 Eagle GA tires. They look great on the car. I don't push the car hard so I cannot evaluate.

JMG
JM Greenlee

I use the 5.5 inch minilites on my MGC with 185X65X15 Dunlop tires. That is just fine for that car, with no clearance issues. I'm going to use the MGC 72-spoke wires off that car on the MGA I'm restoring. I'll probably use a 175X65X15 tire, although I don't know what brand yet. Maybe the Michelin X from one of the old style tire dealers. I agree that the larger sizes tend to make it look freaky, and they may even be a little dangerous depending on the aspect ratio with the rim you are using.
Tom Balutis

You didn't mention rim width, but I would assume 5" in order to get the tubeless option. That's the same width as the MGC wheel Tom is planning to use. Original width was 4" for the 48 spoke wheel and 4.5" for the 60 spoke.

FWIW
Rich
Richard Cutright

Richard,

Are you saying the tubeless option only comes with the 5" and wider rims?

Thanks,

JMG
JM Greenlee

I have a 1960 roadster. Presently I have the 60 spoke wires, with 4.5 inch rims and Dunlop 165x15 tires. These look pretty good, but I find that when pushed hard the rear end likes to come out a little sooner than I'd like. This with a 5/8" front sway bar and HD shocks.
If I would change this I would go to a 5"rim with proportionately wider tires. Seems to me I recall that this is the largest size that would fit with no tire/body interference. I think this would still look ok on the car. I was considering the repro Minilites, but according to a friend who has a restro shop the new Minilites are actually heavier than the same size WW. The larger 5.5 rim is worthy of consideration, but the larger tire might look out of place. I think I may go with the first option (5.0 rim) and fit a larger sway bar
The 165x15 tire/wheel JUST fits into the spare wheel cavity-with a little pushing,
HTH
John
John

I've paired the painted 5.0" wide Dayton 15" 60 spoke tubeless WWs with Michelin XZX 165s. A very nice combination. This was about a year ago and at that time the above WW was special order from Dayton (no extra cost, but a longer wait.) M.S.
Martin Straka

I recently bought new wheels for my '58. I wanted the tubeless option but it is not available in rim widths less than 5". Since I wanted a 48-spoke wheel, this was not an option.

Instead I ordered a 48-spoke painted wheel with a 4.5" rim for a better tire fit (less bulge) and heavy-duty spokes. In addition I ordered it as "maintenance-free" which basically means they dish the wheel slightly less (-1/4") for better balance between inside and outside spokes. This is supposed to eliminate the possibility of the wheels coming out of balance.

Visually I can't tell the difference between the new wheels and the old original ones but these wheels are MUCH stiffer. I decided to run 165-15 tires and with the slightly wider rim and track they look very nice.
Steve Simmons

Martin,

I think I would be interested in the 5" rim and the 185-70-15 tire. This would be proportional to what has been installed on my MGB and looks 'just right'. However, are you saying this combination would not fit the spare sheel cavity?

Thanks,

JMG
JM Greenlee

Even the 165 is a tight squeeze into the spare tire slot. You'd probably keep an old rim for the spare anyway--as it's just to get you to a convenient repair facility. One thing to think about is that the wider the tire on the front, the more effort is going to be required to turn the wheel at parking lot speeds. A good 165 (I have Kumho's) should do you for all but the most aggressive driving. If it's just looks you're concerned about, then I'd not go wider than a 175....clearance could become an issue, and you don't want to mess up your nice newly done wheel wells. IMHO the car looks best with the narrower tire--more original looking. Wide tires seem to diminish the classic appearance of the machine.
R. L Carleen

I just got the Dayton tubeless 60 spoke 5" chrome/ stainless from British Wire Wheel with Vredestein 185/70/15 tires. Very happy with appearance, I don't have any online pics to show though. Drove the car to shop today for engine rebuild, so I will be ready come spring. I heard price went up with the New Year, hope you can slip in under old price.
Rodger

JM,

I don't know if the 185 would work as well as the 165s on a 5' rim. It may work well. Two things to consider are:
1) the unsprung weight, (the larger the tire, the increase in unsprung weight and the greater the unsprung weight = a less responsive suspension, although the greater contact patch of the 185 may offset the increased unsprung weight. factor.)
2) Is the 185 tire pinched on the 5" rim which would increase sidewall flex?

As R L Carleen mentioned the classsical appearance of the car is lost with wide tires.

-M.S.
Martin Straka

The original wheels would have been 4.5". To get the tubless wheels, you have to buy 5". Is the 165 a good match on the 5" rim? Will this combination fit in the spare tire slot?

Safety fast! (and even faster if I ever get this car together!!)

JMG
JM Greenlee

I have 185's on 5" rims on my BGT. They fit fine. There is also a 165 on the spare, also 5" width. It appears to fit fine as well but the 185 looks like a better match for that rim size.
Steve Simmons

Anyone run 165s on the 5" tubeless rims? How do they work and look? Do they fit in the spare tire slot?

Safety fast!

JMG
JM Greenlee

Does the lack of responses mean nobody uses 165s on the 5" tubeless rims?

Safety fast!

JMG
JM Greenlee

Not me but I do know a 165 on a MGB 14x4.5" wheel fits in the spare slot of my A. Looks like there's enough room for a wider rim but I haven't tried it.
Steve Simmons

JM, i have a 1960 rdstr, i have 5.5x15 minilite replica spin on's from moss, i have 195/65 yokohamas and experience no rubbing in either the front or back, i can take a picture for you if you like, jim
james madson

James, I'm considering the same combination, would you please send me, or post, a picture? Thank you Steve
Steve Meline

P.S. James, what Yokohamas are you using? What can you say about them?
Steve Meline

JM,

'Does the lack of responses mean nobody uses 165s on the 5" tubeless rims?'

Please refer to my response on the 13th.

-.M.S
Martin Straka

Now for a different take....

I guess probably the 4.5" Dayton rims with tubes and 165 tires is the way to go.

Will I be able to find somebody to mount and balance? I am thinking of ordering 5 new wheels and tubes and 5 new Kumho tires from different sources. What experience have y'all had getting them mounted and balanced?

Safety fast!

JMG
JM Greenlee

Archives.
Joe Cook

I am using the 165's on dayton 4.5in. rims and I like the look and handling. When I got the car there was quite a shimmy in her. I couldn't find a shop that would guarantee they could balance them. Then I came across a fellow who had an old bubble balancer. Now she does 80mph and no vibration. Other rhan that try to find a shop with with one of those old machines that spins the tire while it's still on the car.
Kris Sorensen

You can order tires and wheels from British Wire Wheel. They will arrive mounted and fully balanced, and ready to install on the car.
Steve Simmons

Steve,

I know Tire Rack has those Kumho tires at a very advantageous price. Will I end up spending more by ordering all from British Wire Wheel? What are the prices I might pay for shipping?

Safety fast!

JMG
JM Greenlee

hi when you order from england are you subject to dutys, why not get some one from the uk to purchase and send to you, with some organiseation it could be worked out. i wanted to purchase a sc but the dutys changed my mind
daren

I have the Kumhos on my '62 restoration with pretty beat up disc wheels. Had them mounted (with tubes) and balanced at a local shop, with a "modern" spin balance (wheel, tube and tire) machine that tells them where to place the weights. Guys doing the work were not familiar with English, but the supervisor told me they had to put weights inside and out.

So far, max speed around 50 (winter hit soon after the first shakedown) and all seems well. The Kumho's look and feel good.

- Ken
Ken Doris

Dear listers-
FWIW..I have found the best period looking tire to be the MIchelin XZX in 165/15..They grip well for a street tire and are reasonable in price...The tread looks more 'vintage" than other options available. (Dunlop SP40 also if you can find them).I use them with the Moss alloy knock-off in 5.5X15, with no clearance problems..I also used a Dunlop street radial 205/60/15 on the same rim as a spec racer tire on my MGA vintage racer. I also used the same setup on the roadster, with a beefier look and perhaps better dry braking and better cornering ...a little less sensitive to road dips,etc than the narrower tire. Now, I use an MGC 72 spoke on the racer with Dunlop bias-ply. The 72 spokes have held up well...balanced and trued by Hendricks Wire Wheel in NC, and still doing well. I would be hesitant to use a wheel less than 60 spokes, due to flex. I also avoid the made in India Moss wheels..I sold a nearly new chrome set with Dunlop SP40's for $400 just to get rid of them. Spend a little more and get Daytons..I also use the Dayton TUBELESS wire wheel on, the E-type. I have @3200 miles on them, sitting now in storage for the winter, with no sign of leakage. They are easily sealed with urathane windshield caulk. I would strongly advise anyone who is contemplating the use of wider, sticker tires, to have their kingpins magnafluxed ..The commonly break where the parting tool left the shoulder near threaded end... due to added unsprung weight and the grip loads that modern /larger radials offer..I've seen this four times with racer friends and their MGA's in the past five years, some with catastrophic results. Can you imagine that happening on the highway? I converted my
Coupe racer to MGB spindles which are much stronger and of superior design. A relatively easy conversion and you can use cheaper MGB calipers..Forget the B caliper conversion bracket offered by Moss..it doesn't fit..see recent MGA! article for details. Just a few personal observations. Thanks for listening
All the best JC
John Coryea

Thanks John, those are very sobering thoughts as I consider mounting bigger wheels & tires. Can you give us more details on what is entailed in the MGB spindle conversion? By the way, how did the alloy knock-offs work? Steve
Steve Meline

Steve-
I had mine done by Kim's Import motors, a race shop here in NY.The swap is covered at length I believe by Mike Ash in MGA! magazine tech sessions.All of my issues are at my "shop" , but if you need a tele# I can get one..he is also selling his compilation of tech sessions through MGA! magazine, very helpful.Anyway the swap involves the use of spacers on the top shock arm as the MGA and MGB arms are of differing widths... the four holes on the base of the B shock may need a slight redrill to line up with the A studs. I have used this setup on my 59 MGA coupe racer with no problems...no big deal...Everything on the bottom bolts up, spring pans,etc.The shock itself is slightly taller ,but does clear the inner fender. A different brake line bracket needs to be made as you are now using the B caliper..The A has different pick up points I think.The A steering rack has to be shortened a little for the tie rod ends... get it realigned.All this sounds complicated and invasive ,but it's not. There is plenty of literature out there as it's a popular conversion with racers. It gives me peace of mind...I know before the swap at Watkins Glen '98 race, we had some failures, also at Louden Andy Schmidt), so every time I went into a turn, I was thinking about suspension failure! One usually won't encounter those suspension stresses on the street(unless your name is Barney Gaylord or you are a maniac..(OOPS! sorry Barney... He's an autocrosser) But we're still dealing with 50 year old cars..In my opinion ,the MGA is one tough car..my coupe takes a pounding and with the exception of losing a float bowl at Mt. Tremblant and filling the car full of 112 Octane fumes at 80 mph, I've had good luck with the car, so a street car should last forever!..Lesson: safety wire your float bowl banjo bolts on the H-4 carbs! So a general synopsis of what needs to be done for the swap, certainly not a detailed how-to, but only the purist,or concours judge would ever notice,after they crawled under the car, that is. Not to be alarmist, but you don't need a kingpin to let go with you or loved ones aboard...get them checked.
The made in England Moss Panasport replicas have worked well for me..I have used the on my racecar, until they were disallowed (supposedly..the rules change all the time it seems, or at least not followed) They are now on my roadster with Michelin 165/15 XZX..I used the Dunlop 205/60 /15 on the racer with the alloy wheels with no clearance problems...5.5 " width I believe..I have heard of the alloy replicas failing at the splined hub area under racing conditions...OH another thing to watch for are failures of original disc wheels due to overtightening lugs ..we had some completely disintegrate at Louden ,entire center section broke !!(John Faulkner)Now that I've scared the SH-- out of everyone and got your attention..the lesson is to check those things that we normally take for granted..it's a lot more dangerous on the highway than the racetrack in my opinion. As I said before, adding more unsprung weight thru big tires and wheels will only put more stress on the front suspension... a nice combo is alloy with 165/15 or 72 spoke DAYTON wires...48 spoke should be reserved for the car show crowd(no offense implied)..just a thought
All the best
John
John Coryea

Steve

Check the archives. Lots of discussions and opinions on this conversion. I use the MGB spindles with MGA shocks and spacers. This is not a hard conversion, and you get disc brakes and the stronger spindles.

FWIW

Larry
Larry Hallanger

This thread was discussed between 13/01/2005 and 24/01/2005

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