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MG MGA - Wire Wheel Balancing

I am having a local tire shop put tubes and tires on my new chrome wire's and they have suggested that they not balance them. They say that they will if I want but many people with this type of wheel don't bother as it can ruin the look of the wheel but that also the wheel changes with heat and cooling so they don't stay that well balance for long anyway.

Does anyone run with unbalanced wires? Should I have them balanced anyway?
R. Maher

I would not install any new tires on any type of rim without balancing. Even just doing a static balance is better than nothing. Unbalanced wheels put a lot of stress on hubs, bearings and front suspensions.
R. L Carleen

Definately have them balanced by someone with the correct adaptors. They can use chromed weights or stick-on lead that can be placed out of sight. MGA's hate out of balance wheels!
Doug
D Sjostrom

Balancing wire wheels is, almost, a lost art. Most of the balance machines do not have the necessary adapters to balance them correctly. Ideally, they should be balanced on the car by someone having the capablilty to do so. (There are, still, a few places which have such a capability. They are worth searching out, even if it requires a road trip.)

My experience with wire wheel has not been good. I have replaced the wire wheels with disc type wheels on my daily drivers. To be able to drive down the "limited access" highways at speeds up to 85 mph without the front end hopping around is a good thing. I notice that, at local club tours, one of the biggest complaints is "being slowed down by those people who have wire wheels" when on a road trip.

Considering all of the problems with wire wheels, my question has always been whether it would be better to go through the trouble of finding the one tire place that could balance wire wheels on the car, or to convert to a better form of wheel.

My answer has, always, been "get a better form of wheel". Many others, including John Thronley, when he was head of MG, tended to agree. You might consider this.

Les
Les Bengtson

I agree with you Les. I have only had success balancing my wire wheels on the car. Only one place within about 25 miles of me that still retains the equipment, but it is very much worth my journey to have them done.

Probably also true to say that a better quality tyre will also help?

Steve
Steve Gyles

When I bought my car the wheels had never been balanced. Anything over 55mph sent a shimmy through the car. I had them bubble balanced and it made the world of difference.
Kris
Kris Sorensen

Yep--even an old fashioned bubble (static) balance is better than nothing. Tire quality probably has little to do with balance, as overall, tire quality these days is excellent, unless of course you're buying retreads from Fred's Recapping City, or some other dubious place.
R. L Carleen

Hi,
Does anyone near where I live know the whereabouts of a garage that still balances wire wheels on the car? I've tried locally but drew a blank. It's ok up to approx. 50mph but then I have to slow down. I did take it through the "shimmy" to approx. 65mph but driving can be a tad uncomfortable, also, I think the car will shake apart. I finished a complete nut & bolt rebuild last year and have had the problem since.
Any help would be most gratefully received.
Many thanks,
Ray.

Ray Allden

Thankyou all, I have started to look around for someone who will balance my wires correctly. Are teh stick on weight's okay?
R. Maher

This British Wire Wheel page from Dayton's web site has helpful information about balancing wire wheels.
http://www.daytonwheelproducts.com/html/balancespline2.htm
If I am reading this correctly Dayton claims that their wire wheels manufactured after 1990 have machined hubs that allow for balancing using common modern balancing methods? -M.S.
Martin Straka

Common practice is to attach the weight(s) to the outside of rim. The weights can be placed to the inside...it just takes more weight for the same effect. Mounted inboard, it doesn't matter if they are lead, chrome or pure GOLD...nobody will really see them.
Jon Bachelor

If you're a real stickler. Take your wheels to a Harley shop, have the spokes tentioned, and the wheel balanced.

Travel safely,

LLG

Larry Gray

R. Mahar - If you will e-mail me, I'll send you information on making an adapter to use with modern balancing machines to balance wire wheels. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

David,

Please do send me the adapter informaiton. I would like to post it on my web site.

Barney
Barney Gaylord

David I made an adaptor to take with me to tyre fitters so that they could balance my wire wheels. The one I made was simply a cone with a hole down the centre that the fitter can use on the outside of the wheel to centralise it. I assume you have something similar? it is extremely simple.
Bob (robert)

Bob - The adapter that I have instructions for is a hub that will fit the wheel with the knock on and the inside wall of the outer end of the hub machined to to be parallel to the centerline of the hub. If you have drawings of your adapter, perhaps you could send them to the people in need of such as it sounds like it is simpler than the one I have drawings for. By the way, I have never tried the adapter, having switched to alloy wheels before the information on this adapter came out. Cheers - Dave
David DuBois

Bob, David

I would be interested in getting copies of the drawings for both systems.

Thanks

Larry
Larry Hallanger

I don't know if the balancing machines are the same as those we use in the UK but ours have a shaft with a cone inboard. The normal wheel fits onto this shaft and a flat metal plate fits onto the outside and holds the wheel central for balancing. This does not work for a wire wheel hub but by making another cone to fit on the shaft from the outside then nutted up the wheel is held central. I am going to the tyre place at the weekend so I will take a couple of photos with the thing in place.
Bob (robert)

Another alternative, if you can find one in your area, is to have them balanced on the car by someone who still has both the stroboscopic tools and wheel driver motor used years ago. They will also need to know how to use it.

I lucked out and found an Alignment shop in Boise who still had both the gear and the operator to do this sort of balance. It was not cheap, but not expensive either, and it did a great job of making the wheels roll smoothly. And the weights all seemed to end up on the inside of the rims, not on the "show" side.

I would check your older tire and alignment shops to see if you can find this sort of balancing if you aren't able to machine your own adapters.
Bob Muenchausen

I have now been to my tyre fitters and took pictures of his balancing machine and pictures of the adapter that allows wire wheels to be balanced upon his machine. If anyone would like details leave your e mail address.
Bob (robert)

Bob - I would like to see the pictures. Please sent to the above address. Thanks - Dave
David DuBois

me too please Bob.
Jason Ogelman

Me too! Thanks Bob
Art

Me too, Bob!
Thanks,
John
e-mail= leonard at svsu dot edu
J.P. Leonard

Bob,

I'd like to see the pictures. Thanks. -M.S.
Martin Straka

Bob, one more time if you will ... many thanks !!

Mike
Michael Hosier

I was in the middle of wanting to get my wire wheels balanced in preparation for the trip to GT-30 when I started reading this thread. Just yesterday I went to a local tire shop that has been around for years and as luck would have it they had the old strobe and balancer that allows for the balancing to be done with wheels on the car. I was amazed as I watched the fellow work his magic. He spent about 20 minutes on each of the front wheels checking and re-checking as he went. When he was done he had removed the three weights (2.0 oz each)from each front wheel that had been put on by a previous tire shop and used only two small .75 oz weights on each. I took the car out for a run tonight and experienced 65-70 MPH for the first time with my teeth still intact. The difference was amazing. The steering wheel feel was smooth and steady and the whole driving experience became much more enjoyable. If you can find one of these relics around with someone who knows how to use it I would heartily recomend doing so. The cost was a bit steep at $20 per wheel but based upon the results I would do it again without hesitation.

Mike
1960 MGA Roadster
Michael Hosier

Bob,
Please send me a copy of your pictures and any other information from anybody with drawings so I can make the necessary adapters for wire wheels for our club. Thanks for your help. Have a good day!

John
54 mgtf
60 MGA Coupe
62 MGA Roadster
John

Bob,

I have recently bought an MGA 1600 mk2, and about to start the process of stripping and rebuilding ( although it is currently a mot'd and road worthy vehicle). I've read the article re wire wheel balancing as I currently have steel wheels on it and am looking to change these. I would therefore be interested in the drawings/pictures of the adapter that you use.
A Aitken

Bob, Dave,
I'd like to see both your systems. I've an old wornout hub I was going to have machined, but I'd like to see your designs first!

Cheers!!!
Rob
Rob Edwards

BTW -- delete the "deletethis" in my email address...

Cheers!
Rob Edwards

Bob, thanks for the pictures. I see your outer cone centres the hub from the inside edge. In the Moss catalogues they give a diagram of a balancing jig and they emphasize to centre the hub using the outside edge (since that is where the spinner seats the wheel on the hub). But obviously you have had success so I guess it isn't that important.
Art

Bob (robert) england here is my email address, thanks in advance.


Andrew
A Aitken

Working for Bridgestone I see a lot of different machines for balancing tyres and can say that most will balance wire wheels if set up with the corect cones. See the link to a PDF document on the Tip-Top site in Germany.
http://www2.rema-tiptop.de/automotive/downloadcenter/581_1341_Wuchttechnik_engl.pdf

As you can see it is possible to get a number of different cones to fit the machine. I have always gone to a local dealer and set up the balancer myself so that the correct part of the hub flange is being gripped by the cones.

I have driven to 101mph (on a GPS unit) with no vibration problem (in Germany of course?!).

Neil
Neil Purves

I cant believe all the "old wives tales" in this thread I own a repair shop and have an off car spin balancer. The balancer I have does wire wheels just fine.In fact I just went out to the shop and mounted an old 48 spoke wheel to it to make sure I wasn't lying. The thing about wire wheels is that they must have tight spokes and run true.The art and it is an art is truing wheels. 60 spoke is much stronger than 48. On car balancers are only better where something besides the wheel is out of balance and if thats the case fix the problem don't cover it up. With the advent of computers a wheel now can be balanced in multiple planes. Much better. That is why strobe type balancers,that cant balance side to side and are not "user friendly" are history. I have used the sensor and strobe type balancer described that you had to run the wheel up to speed with motor on new Datsun 240-280zs at a dealership. Before that we used bubble balancers. This is one area where the old way is NOT better give me a good computer balancer any time.
Randy Brown
R J Brown

It all just goes to show that a real mechanic can frequently do a good job with deficient or obsolete equipment, and a moron can screw anything up with the best tools in the world. I used to use an on-car spin balancer, including for "dynamic" or lateral balancing when necessary. The only advantage is that the wheel IS mounted correctly on the hub - usually. Otherwise, it is as Randy says, subject to other troubles on the car.
I have found that Rostyles are even worse than wires for balancing by fools. There is NO surface on a Rostyle, except the bolt holes and flat hub surface, which is true. Mounting them on tapered cones does not work. Cars are constantly showing up with as many as 6 2 oz or bigger weights per wheel, and the shakes. I had one customer who took his car to several shops, several times each. Every time he would bring it back to me wanting to know what was loose, and every time I'd tell him it was out of balance. Finally he came in and said that on visit three to one shop they told him that all 5 wheels were "more than 1/4" bent laterally and can't be balanced." He watched the wheels on the machine, and said some were off by 1/2". I jacked it up with a pointer and showed him that all wheels were within 1/32, and he finally let me take a couple of pounds of lead off. The car had no more serious shakes. Since I no longer have a balancer, I then pushed back the caliper pistons and balanced all 5 on the front hubs, spinning them by hand. Used no more than 1/2 - 3/4 oz on any wheel. Car ran dead smooth to top speed. Optimal? -No, slow? -yes; Usually adequate.
FRM
FR Millmore

One of the tricks we used to use when racing MGA's with wire wheels was to revolve the tyre on the rim to achieve balance. It was best to start with the name of the tyre (e.g. Dunlop) opposite the valve then check the balance. This would then give an indication of where weight was required. The tyre was then deflated and moved on the rim and then the balance rechecked. The method is time consuming but would ususally result in at least two of the four wheels having good balance without addition of any weights. These wheels would always be placed on the front of the car, and any wheels where it was not possible to balance without weights would go on the rear. In that configaration a weight lost during the race would have less impact on high speed vibration.

Regards...John Bray
J Bray

Guys,
Where can you buy steel wheels (new or used) for MGA's these days? Only for daily driving purposes, of course.
Regards,
Al
Al Wrisley

I responce to John Brays comment. Most of the Japanese car makers put a dot on the wheel and tire that are lined up at the factory just for that reason.True wheels and quality tires usually dont need much weight.
Keep it simple because it usually is.
Randy
R J Brown

Al,
Are you looking for 1500 or 1600 wheels. I have several 1500 wheels. I don't know about 1600 wheels. I will check. They can be had for the postage. Let me know what you need. My email is jprogess@att.net. Have a good day!

John
John Progess

Just to clarify all I have done is to machine a cone that centres the outside of the wheel when on the balancer. The chap whose balancer it is does not use an outside cone for normal wheels and so does not have one. Normal wheels use a flat plate against the outside to hold the wheel square but this does not work when a wire wheel is on the machine.
Bob (robert)

This thread was discussed between 24/06/2005 and 14/07/2005

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