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MG MGA - Wire wheel balancing (again)!

For those who do not subsrcibe to the Moss newsletter there was a good article on wire wheel balance along with other useful stuff, like how to bleed the clutch slave cylinder, build a work bench using a kitchen sink as a parts washer, etc.
The sketch of the wheel clamping arrangement was particularly clear and should clear up a few misconceptions.
Hopefully these links will get you there.

http://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/balance_wire_wheels.html?utm_source=MossMotors&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=WinterSavingsSale225

not sure how to copy the email link from Moss - maybe someone else can help.

Regards
Mike

Mike Ellsmore

Mike

Good info. I know of one person over here who made up a set of cones (1C and 1D in your diagram). He takes them with him to the balancing shop as not all carry the required ones.

As you know, I take mine to Bob West who has set up an entire MGA hub assembly on his balancer to simulate an 'on car' balance. It's a pity that, as I am now down south, I will now have to travel 250 miles to get them balanced!

Steve
Steve Gyles

Yeap - still here for you to try out some time Steve
Pete
P N Tipping

I'm running Dayton chrome wire wheels on my MGA Coupe with Michelin 185-65 15 tires and after 4000 miles the front developed a small vibration between 65-70 mph. I took the wheels into my tire shop and they reluctantly rebalanced them and said they were almost perfect and only out by 1/4 ounce. That small amount made all the difference so they need to be perfectly balanced to be vibration free.

Andy
Andrew Preston

It's you is it Pete? Are they items I can fabricate easily in my lathe?

Steve
Steve Gyles

Just spotted these wire wheel balancing adapters on Ebay:

http://tinyurl.com/5vjeyld

Steve
Steve Gyles

Sorry Steve I haven't been checking in lately...
Yes it is me - I've attached a piccie of the adaptor for you this time. I made this by sawing off the flange of an old rear hub and then using an old spinner screwed on to it in the lathe, accurately machined a radiused hole in the spinner that would fit over the balancing machine's 'external' cone.
Its not as far as Bob's to Hampshire... see you soon???
Pete

P N Tipping

Are you thers Steve? (He asked bumpily)
P N Tipping

Pete

Yes, I am heers. How do you centre the splined hub onto the balancer shaft? The problem lies at that end. Is it the inner face of the wheel that still makes the contact; the hub; or a combination of both? Unless the diameter of the shaft and the hub are a good sliding fit I would have thought you would have a problem.

Steve
Steve Gyles

I agree with Steve. It looks as though the inner side of the wheel will be held by the face of the wheel.
It must be located on the inner wheel taper as well as the outer wheel taper.

Mick
M F Anderson

Are we having trouble with you guys...? Apologies for the typo, by the way.
OK - the wheel's inner cone will centre OK on the balancing machine's standard inner cone. My adaptor's (old hub) spline fits in the wheel just as it would on your car. This method keeps the screwed-on spinner square and located over the wheel's true machined outer cone as on your car. (The adaptor does not touch the machine's shaft.)
Once fitted, the balancing machine's 'outer' cone will then centrally locate the radiused hole in the adaptor's modified spinner, which being square and true to the wheel has to ensure a true running hub (and wheel).
I had had awful front wheel balance for years and lost count of how many times I'd had them re-balanced.
I had the same wheel and tyre combination balanced once with this adaptor and the car has been perfect ever since.
Originally, I had noticed how wobbly the wheels were on the machine, whereas on the car they spun virtually true. Its no use trying to dynamically balance an untrue wheel. If you were lucky, it could be possible that the unmachined inner hole in the outside of the wheel is actually true; then you don't need this device - I wasn't that lucky.
Pete
P N Tipping

Steve/Pete,
A cross section sketch of how the wheel fits on the balancing machine would clear this up. Steve, how are your drafting skills?
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

I was a bit dubious at first, but I think what Pete is saying is that you still use an inner cone like '1C' in the Moss diagram above, the adaptor is effectively '1D' and the outer cone '2C' centres the adaptor.
Dave O'Neill 2

I tried Moss's "1D" bit i.e. with just the spinner alone machined as you see, but it would not stay square to the wheel on the balancing machine. There isn't enough length in the cone. This is what the modified hub does here, by engaging the wheel's spline it just holds the spinner square to the wheel's axis.
The old rear hub I used simply had the flange sawn off level with the end of the splines as you can see in my pic and the bore simply opened out to clear the shaft and lighten it.
The spinner is fully tightened onto the modified hub. It could not be simpler...
A tip is to use the right hand threaded items to enable a simple turning job otherwise the lathe will have to run backwards. It is important of course to get the spinner's machined hole concentric to its thread.
Have you got it yet guys? Would you like a pic of the parts separated? Perhaps a sketch?
Pete
P N Tipping

Here you go - one quick sketch. Does this help guys?
Pete

P N Tipping

Pete

I fully understand what you have done. I have trouble understanding the accuracy of how it centres on the cones. There again, I guess you spun the whole assembly in the lathe to square off the spinner face.

An additional query. Are the wheel balancing shops happy to put a home-made bit of kit on their machines? I would have thought it would invalidate their employee insurance cover.

Steve
Steve Gyles

Hi Steve
I only machined the radiused hole in the spinner and only sawed off and bored out the hub. The spinner's face is naturally true from its original machining.
The wheel's inner cone centres on the balancing machine with no problem.
The spinner's RADIUSED hole will centre on the balancing machine's 'outer' cone. The radius will cope will any cone angle.
Have you got it now?
My tyre place had no problems and were very happy to know I had cracked it at last. I even finished up making a similar but larger version for the old XK Jaguar's wire wheels for a local 'XK' dealer who uses the same tyre place.
Pete
P N Tipping

This thread was discussed between 12/01/2011 and 19/02/2011

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