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MG MGB Technical - 5 Speed conversions

Anyone know of any strong 5 speed conversions state side? Thanks
Jarrod

Jarrod,
No nothing about the company so can't say one way or the other about quality, but here's one in South Carolina.

http://www.mgfivespeed.com/
Robert Dougherty

Jarrod-
Although there have been several positive reports on the BBS concerning the Sierra 5-speed conversion, none were from people who had put a lot of mileage on them. These transmissions are sourced by scouring scrapyards in the UK for used transmissions. They are supposedly "rebuilt", but when one considers the cost of transatlantic shipping, the new driveshaft, plus the additional hardware in the conversion kit, and then the markup for the vendor in the USA, one is left to wonder just what the original seller considers to be a "rebuild". The cost of a true rebuild to like-new specifications alone would skyrocket the price far beyond what these conversion kits sell for. I suspect that they merely drain the oil, look inside for broken gearteeth and other obvious disasters, slap in new seals and gaskets, clean the exterior of the shell, refill it with oil, and ship it out. How many miles on it? Who knows? Caveat Emptor!
Steve S.

Robert, I have no web sight for you to look at BUT I have a lot of M.G.s to look at if you come over & look at the 5sp. that I supply. I use a 280 Z gear box with all the parts from backing plate gasket to drive shaft. I have a car hear that you can drive & see just what you will have when you are done.
Glenn Towery

I too am thinking of going the 5 speed route on my B when the time comes for completion.
I feel Steve maybe correct on the Sierra I would think the 280z might make more sense as it is readily available over here.
There is also a Toyota option from New Zealand.
Maybe those that have tried any of these and have put mileage on them could comment.
Rob
Robin Marshall

Why not contact Peter Gamble who owns Hi-Gear in England and ask him. I have bought a unit from him and had it shiped to the US from England from him. He is a small businesman and is very straight forward I would have not problem buying a unit from him again which I will do soon for my Magnette.
jeff becker



I don't have a 5 speed conversion in my MGA - I decided against it on the grounds of originality only.

During the course of my researches I twice met Peter Gamble of Hi-Gear and am pleased to reinforce what Jeff Becker says.

I also have a couple of friends who has installed Hi-Gear kits - both are delighted.

Nigel
1965 MGA Roadster Mk I
1973 MG B GT V8
1995 MG R V8 - for sale !
Nigel Steward

I have had one of the Sierra conversions in my B for about 2 years and 15,000 miles. he trans has performed flawlessly up to this point. For the price I paid for it as compared to others I couls get another trans and not be that far behind. As far as the conversion itself, it was as discribed and the performance has turned a 64 with a 3 speed syncro from a farm tractor to a wonderful auto to drive. People will get upset with my farm tractor statement but it is true. I got mine shipped over from England and it was not a lot of hassel, but it was cheaper than buying one from a distributer here in the states. Have fun Ed
Ed Kulick

I also installed the Hi-Gear Engineering 5-speed conversion in my 73B early last year - I sourced mine through the MGOC in England and beleive that they have high vendor standards. The US web-site identified earlier in this string appears to be offering the same kit. The Hi-Gear literature indicated that the Sierra gearbox had been "meticulously" refurbished and they provide a 12 month warranty (I appreciate that this may be of limited value in North AMerica but it is a measure of their confidence). I called them to confirm the spec for the recommended synthetic oil and found them very responsive. To-date I have covered 3000+ miles on the conversion and have been delighted with the transformation.

BarryQ
73B
B.J. Quartermaine

I firtst put a 5-speed in my 74 B-GT in 1994. I bought the kit from Novus in California. Teh kit had a 268Z re-drilled flywheel, a crossmember, adapter for the clutch slave, various spacers and bolts and instruction. There were instruction on how to hook up the speedo. I had to provide the trans, 280z, the clutch,280z, athe starter,280z, the slave cylinder,280z.
The kit worked ok, but I had a drive shaft made up to fit rather than modify the mg unit, and i installed an eldectroic speedo. Teh kit was $650 at the time. I have had mo trouble with the conversion in about 50,000 miles.
I am now putting in one of Glenn Towerery's kits and it look good but have not driven it yet. This one is for a 67 B.
The 280z is the one i would use. It is lighter than the ford unit.
steve

Might also want to look at Rivergate's conversion. I'm installing in an MGA. rathern than use the Z-car flywheel, he cuts the MG flywheel down to accept the z-car ring gear. IIRC it taks about 4 pounds out of the perimeter of the flywheel, letting it rev easier.

Quality of the components look good, and the installation (increadilbly slow) has so far gone according to his written instructions
Greg Fast

I need to clarify a point. This installation is slow because of me, not due to Rivergate.

I also need to read these before I post them to correct any speliing errors
Greg Fast

I, too, have installed the Rivergate 5 speed conversion using the 79-83(?) 5 speed tranny in my 70 GT. I got the deluxe kit which included new driveshaft, modified flywheel, new crank bushing, slave cylinder, angle drive and long adapted speedo cable, new (beautiful!) machined aluminum backing plate (that weighs about 12# less than stock) with new rear main seal installed, various mounts to mate the tranny to the X-member, all nuts/bolts/hardware, new rubber clutch line, modified shifter lever, clutch disk, alignment tool, various 280 tranny seals, and several other things that I am forgetting. The installation was very straight forward with the highly detailed, illustrated manual. I had to cut the old mounts off of the X-member to mate the new 280Z mounts, I had to put a notch in the starter "hood" as the starter is rotated about 30 degrees to mate with the new flywheel. Although I did not have to, one may have to create 1/4inch more clearance in the tranny tunnel for the gear shifter as it is fairly tight, even with the modified shifter, on the 5th/R gates.
The 280 tranny weighs about 30# less than the stock 4 sp, with the additional ~12# weight savings with the new backing plate, and the 4# lighter flywheel, the car loses almost 50#.
As far as driving, that's hard for me to say as I never drove the car with the 4 speed. I have to say, though, that cruising the highway at 75mph with roughly 3100 rpm showing on the tach sure is nice, as well as getting about 33 mpg on the highway.
The deluxe kit costs about $1k, without the tranny. I got a used tranny out of an 81 280 in a local yard that had been totaled due to vandalism with about 120k showing on the odo for $175. I'm not sure of the differences between the different trannies, but Rivergate specifies that only the tranny from the 2 seater, NON-turbo models fit. Even with those conditions, I had 4 to choose from at my local boneyard. The parts picker apparently cut the tranny out and as a consequence I have a decent spare slave cylinder and front driveshaft yoke.
Overall, since I drive my GT everyday, I sincerly think that its the best modification I've made yet.
Ben
P.S.-I have absolutely ZERO financial interest in Rivergate-just a happy customer.
Ben Pender

I purchased a Rivergate kit as well. I can say this it was everything that I payed for. Below is a parts list of what I got and how it fit.


Purchased a 280ZX turbo trans for $100.00 (YES A TURBO ITS ALSO A BW T-5)

Purchased a rear engine plate, trans mount, pilot bush, and flywheel from Rivergate.

Aside from the fact that the guys at Rivergate said the kit wouldnt work on the t-5. I belive its becouse it was untested waters for them.

I purchased a gear reduction starter. I belive its the best way to go. Butchering a MG starter just wasnt my cup of tea.

I also ordered a Clutch disk from Centerforce. It wasnt a specialty item it just was a part the auto part store didnt have, its a 8" disk with a 1" shaft. I cut the pad plate of the presure plate off. Replaced the throw out bearing with a stock nissan part.

Replaced the slave cylinder hose and line fitting. Rivergate sends a sort of adapter but its much easier to cut the old off put the metric one on and reflair the line.

I refabricated the rear trans mount just by cutting it down and welding it to the crossmemeber.

An electronic speedo took care of the speedo concerns.

I have an interesting situation in that I have a nissan differential and changing the driveshaft yolks was not needed. But for those of you who are using the MG rearend a Nissan shaft is to short to use but the MG shaft can be shortend and the nissan yolk attached to the front side.

One other note the shifter comes up in the EXACT same spot as the MG and needs NO altering.

Any question?
Todd Budde

Another point to make on the install I'm doing- I'm using an earlier transmission- It's an intermediate ration box W/ about a 3:1 first gear, in contrast to the (IIRC) 3.35:1 first in the T-5 and 3.5:1 in the later Z & ZX transmissions. I've been told that this is a couple inches shorter than the later transmissions, but the output flange pilot diameter, the flange diameter, and bolt hole locations match the 4 synchro MGB gearbox. If this proves correct, I'll need to lengthen the driveshaft (about another $150 w/ new universals). Others may want to consider using the earlier box- the closer gear spacing is a joy
Greg Fast

Hey Todd, how are things in San Antonio? I trust you and the missus and daughter are all settled in to a new home. You'll have to put A/C on the GT for sure now.
On the web site, www.motorwayltd.com, on the Photo Album page, the 2001 Caterham has a Ford 5-speed but I dont' know if it's the Sierra Type 9, or a T-5. Of course that's a factory setup, not a conversion. That engine is a Ford 4 cyl with dual Weber sidedraft carbs so it will probably need the strength of the T-5.
On the Service and Repair page, there is a TF that somebody put a Sunbeam motor in, and Bill may put a B engine in it with the TF version of the Sierra 5-speed conversion. It depends on what the owner wants to do. But they say that the Sierra really makes a big difference on the TF and TD.
Ken T
Ken Thompson

StevS- Everytime we stumble on this topic and you tick off your concerns about the "rebuild", I have to remind you that the Sierra comes beautifully painted in Gloss Black. Now that must recommend it. I too went with trust and accepted the spec offered at the time ala BJ and Ed above. To whom it may concern- I have barely 2k on my Sierra import, jumped into the conversion after reading the "MG Enthusiast", May 1999 issue, and have never looked back . It's been flawless and more fun than the OD ( of which I have 3 now, for anybody interested). Too, the shift pattern is closer, and much more positive than the stock B trans.B.J-What grade syn-oil are you using in the Sierra? Vic
vem myers

Todd- so even with the electro speedo ( guessing $200), you're just peeking over $1k in costs total ? Did you have any concerns about the $100 trans? You look like the weener, buck-wise, on this thread for the conversion.
vem myers

Since I am currently reading uo on web page creation, I couldn't resist posting pictures of the Ford Sierra Type-N 5-speed box and the transition bell housing supplied by Hi-Gear Engineering. The quality is terrific and I can't imagine a much smaller gearbox - I didn't weigh it but was able to carry it around the garage single handed - maybe 65-70lbs? I have a lot more pictures but didn't wan't to bor you.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~bquartermaine/Sierra/

Regards,
BarryQ
73B
B.J. Quartermaine

I just checked the invoice on the Sierra gearbox - it weighed 34.1kg (75 lbs) as shipped.

BarryQ
B.J. Quartermaine

Vem,

I got the box from a reputable yard out of a low milage car that had been totaled in an accedent. I know how reliable these boxes are. The Nissan application doesnt come close to 50% of the HP rating for the box. I do like this box for the ratios it has in it. They are spaced quite nicely and accomidate the turbo charged engine I have in the car. With the gear reduction started Im in it for around $1200.00.
Todd Budde

I can not believe some comments, I work for a company in the UK that reconditions gearboxes. The process includes checking all gears for mechanical damage, replacing bearings and syncros, plus all gaskets. I am sorry but the comments by Steve have really annoyed me, to the extent that I will suggest to him that most of the threads he comments upon he adds only dribble!On this particular thread he suggests we refill them with oil, what planet is he on, perhaps a little more mechanical knowledge would help him understand that if we did that the oil would run out in transit!
Dave

Todd-

As I see it, the early Nissan box was factory intalled in 140-150 hp cars, the turbo in probably 180-200 hp cars.

While you may NEED capacity for 280-400 horsepower in your turbo application, I don't. A five main 1800 putting out maybe 120 hp doesn't need a transmission w/ the ability to handle 422 or so ft-lb of torque Hi-Gear.

And I should remind you that gearboxes are designed to survive a given torque rather than horspower.

I dislike being this snitty, but I believe you've disparaged the Nissan gearbox in this application.

Now I've cruised a number of the salvage yards in SoCal, and I've never seen an XR4 or Scorpion (and I believe these are the two applications that used this gearbox in the US.) Perhaps there is a greater concentration of these cars in your area.

On the other hand, I can find tons of 240-260-280 Z cars, boxes are a hundred a whack, with another $150 for brass and bearings I can rebuild the transmission- or purchase one sans core rebuilt for about three and a half.

Okay, I did option A, except I traded a seat for the rebuilt transmission, so I'm into the change for about $800 right now.

The high gear kit looks very attractive and well thought out, but it would take me a pile of money more than I've got tied up right now to get me overkill torque capacity that I don't need.

I am aware of one guy in the area who put the Hi Gear kit in his car. I'm told by a reliabele third party he's into it for about 2 grand.

You don't need to justify use of the Hi Gear kit by slapping the Nissan deal. You choose what you choose because that's what you want. I choose what I choose because for me it's the less expensive option.

Greg Fast

Greg,

Please go back and read my post again. I am using a Factory Nissan box. In limited production in the earlie 80's Nissan used a T-5 box that mates to a Nissan L series motor. The Rivergate kit is designed for a Nismo box or stock box in a 240z- 280zx. I to saw no need to ship over a box from England when by doing some careful research could do it with a few parts found at a local scrap yard.

I actualy thought I was quite inventive by making the best of both of the kits. Also I buy parts for the box at any Ford dealer or in most cases the parts store. If in fact I could'nt have found the 280ZXturbo I would have gone for the straight up nissan swap.
Todd Budde

Dave-
Flame if you wish, but I can not consider a transmission with used gears to be legitimately "rebuilt". To me, that fits the definition of an "overhaul", much like running a hone down a worn cylinder bore and slapping a new set of rings on the old piston. An overhaul will get you by in a pinch, but a full rebuild is the way to go if you intend to keep it on the road indefinitely. I'm surprised that you would replace worn bearings and not replace the shaft that they support. If the bearings are worn out, then the bearing surface of the shaft which they support would also be worn out as well. If the oil in the transmissions that you've rebuilt really would run out in transit, then I'd suggest that perhaps a little more mechanical knowledge would help you to understand that if you try installing new seals besides just replacing the gaskets, then the transmission will hold its oil much better. Perhaps you would care to identify the company that you work for and tell how long a warranty you give on your transmissions. I'm sure that our UK readers would be interested.
Steve S.

Todd

Apologies-

I misread- thought you were replying to Quartermaine re Sierra box, rather than vem. Totally missed the response address on the front of your post.

I've looked at the turbo purple thing you're building- like the way you're approaching rear suspension
Greg Fast

Steve, You said:
"I'm surprised that you would replace worn bearings and not replace the shaft that they support. If the bearings are worn out, then the bearing surface of the shaft which they support would also be worn out as well."

Please explain why there would be wear on the bearing surface of the shaft. Roller bearings, ball or taper rollers turn within an inner and outer race, one race, usually the inner is on a shaft and rotates with and at the same speed as the shaft and the other race is in a housing and remains stationary. The races are normally a tight fit so they cannot move on the shaft or spin in the housing so there should be zero wear on the bearing race surface of the shaft unless the bearing fails. The shaft will have some type of gear or spline on it and wear of the gear or spline would indicate the need for shaft replacement. For example, does a bad outer axle wheel bearing, tube type diffentrial, indicate the need to replace the the axle shaft?

Thanks, Clifton

Clifton Gordon

Clifton-
A fully-caged bearing would probably not require the replacement of the shaft unless the inner race spun on the shaft, obviously. Such an example would be the outter bearing for the shaft on a Salisbuy Tube-Tpe axle (Good example, Cliff!) However, a set of worn uncaged bearings would require replacement of the shaft, such as in the case the needle bearings of the first motion shaft in early 3-synchro transmissions.
Steve S.

Steve, Thanks for your reply. Your comment made me remember that a midget tranny I worked on a few years back had some uncaged roller bearings, and I agree in that situation the shaft would be subject to wear and may need replacement. Regards, Clifton
Clifton Gordon

So Steve does not accuse me of flaming him, would someone care to explain to him why oil runs out of gearboxes when drive shafts are not installed and thus stop him making himself look ?
Dave

Greg,

Few things for you,

Its not that crazy purple/blue color any longer. The color I had picked was not what the paint supplier mixed and I could'nt tell it until the clear coat went on. I repainted it a few months ago and its now a gunmetal gray.

The rear suspension is essentialy still the same in that it uses nissan trailing arms. I have revamped the sub-frame into a much lighter configuration and swaped out the r180 with 3.364 gears for a r200 with 3.545 gears.

My new website should have all new pictures up on it. I have not had the chance to get some digital photos taken.


Rivergate gave me excelent support on the standard nissan conversion. I think its a great way to go for us on this side of the pond. I found a yard here in SA that will sell you a standard 280Z 5 speed for $25.00 and I found a rebuild kit on the internet for $45.00. Im sure other markets are pretty close to the same.

Todd
Todd Budde

Greg

They do appear. I picked up a trans from an XR4TI a few months back here in San Diego.

Larry
Lawrence Hallanger

Todd-

Can't wait till you get more depth in the new website- I saw the car initially on the the old site, and kind of fell for it. Like the mental image I have of gunmetal, but the purple blue deal sticks in my mind

Lawrence-

I recognise they are available, but Ford only imported a fraction of the number of Z & ZX cars Nissan brought over, If you're going to try to find something, it's alot easier if there are alot of them around,

That said, I personally have no beef with anyone using the Ford box instead of the Nissan (or T-5) box- after all, it would be pretty dull if we all looked the same
Greg Fast

This thread was discussed between 13/01/2003 and 22/01/2003

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