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MG MGB Technical - Going for less road and more track-suggestions?

With the GT seeing less than one thousand street miles per year, I have decided to optimize its suspension more for track than street. I would like advice from anyone who has travelled this path.

The suspension is currently as follows:

Lowered 1 1/2 inches all around with Victoria Brits lowering springs front and rear. Fronts are 500 lbs/in. Rears I do not know.

7/8 front sway bar.

stock rebuilt shocks (not uprated)

rear panhard bar

front has v8 bushings, rear has bushings that came with springs

"R" compund BFGs on Minotaur Knock-offs.

Roll Cage will be installed this winter.

I realize that the current suspension is a hodge podge of bits. Currently, handling is limited by rear wheel lift. I plan to attend to that with stiffer front springs. I have until about Febuary to get the plan and the parts together. While I do have a few ideas, I would like to hear from those who have been there and doe it with a track-biased MGB. Also, Moss and Vic Brit do not seem to be the ones to deal when it comes to racing parts or experience.

Pete
Pete

The November 2002 issue of Grassroots Motorsports has an excellent article on an MG-BGT prepared for SCCA ProRally. Car #137 is campaigned by Phil and Dallas Smith. Perhaps some Google searching will help you find their "Rally Rhybudd".
Charles Edwards

Here's the link...

http://www.vintagerally.com/cars/smithmgb.htm
Charles Edwards

Charles:

Thanx for the link. I subscribe to Grassroots and the link gives more info than the article does. What I am looking for is some kind of an idea on front spring rates, where to get delrin (or more suitable?) bushes and some idea of what kind of shocks or valving to run with these components. I suspect that rally cars would be set-up way to soft and high off the ground for my needs.

Pete
Pete

Pete,

I would consider 600+, negative camber, uprated valves at front and 1in front bar and poss anti tramp bars.

Paul
Paul

I use 600lb 8" springs, negative camber, uprated valves and 7/8" front bar with polyureathne bushes. All standard at the back apart form poly bushes. 60 profile tyres.

Goes like a dream.

(Obviously not a dream in which I own a Ferrari or something like that.)

Neil
Neil Lock

I just fitted oversized autox (sprint) tires and am by necessity fitting a panhard rod. I attempted to fit 550# front springs when I dropped my ride height approx 1 inch three years ago, but the alleged 3/4 inch drop came out to be about a 3 to 4 inch drop, so I settled for the 480# springs. I've never really gotten an answer as to why this was so, but I'm going to give 550+# another try next week. The British Automotive panhard rod is expected to give a drop a little less than an inch, so it may be the spring shop that solves the ride height problem. Over the coming winter, a stiffer front anti-sway bar is in the offing. When I finally get my big wheels neatly tucked into the wells, I promise to write up the recipe. Cheers, Dean
Dean Lake

Neil: I am not too far from your set-up. What I need to find now is a good source of poly bushes here in North America. I think I will give Apple haydraulics a call for a set of uprated shocks all around. I note though that you left the rears standard.

Dean: I also had more than one inch drop when I went with the 500lb springs from Vic Brit. I however, found that I liked the results and it is livable on the street. Makes life hard getting a floor jack under the crossmember! A panhard bar will not drop your cars height; it will only serve to keep the axle from moving side to side. I went to one when I realised that 195-60/14 tires would rub under hard cornering. No more problems.

Now to another question. Has anyone corner weighed a MGB GT? The only way I can see to source correct length springs and spring lenghts, is to know how much the front weighs and then figure how much the springs will compress. As I said, I want to keep the ride height I have.

Pete
Pete

Pete,

Could try MG Motorsport in UK and Superflex

http://www.mgmotorsport.co.uk/tuning/mgbr&h.htm

Paul
Paul

Pete,
The current panhard kit from British Automotive includes axel location hardware which has a small effect on ride height, dropping a bit less than an inch. The drop helps avoid interference issues, as I understand it. My kit is on order, so in the next week or two I'll be letting all know how installation goes. I am going to install the 7/8" front sway bar at the same time. The harder bushing sets are in my future, too. I will just replace them alittle at a time as service is needed. BTW, I have the uprated shock springs all around and would do it again that way.
Cheers, Dean
Dean Lake

Pete,

You are probably farther than you think from my set-up! I changed from 500lb to 600lb springs about two years ago. I also fitted the negative camber arms and the poly bushes at the same time. The difference was incredible. Handling is very flat (no roll), with the tiniest tendency towards oversteer.

Rear wheel lift would suggest too stiff rear (unlikely as you haven't touched it) or too much roll at the front. My car will lift an inside front wheel under really heavy autotest (autocross) cornering.

You can tweak the ride height a bit using some spacers. Doug at MG Motorsport will fax you a drawing if you ask nicely, or Moss make some good quality plastic ones. I have condidered checking the corner weights myself but, as there is not much you can do about them anyway, decided to save the time and expense.

Neil

Neil

Neil,
You should be able to adjust your corner weights via the spaces or pre-loading your anti-sway bar. My B will also lift an inside front on hard cornering. I am considering changing the 9/16" rear bar to 5/8".

I am running the 660# front springs, up-rated shocks, negative camber lower arms with adjustable bushings and 1" bar in alumnium mounts. On the rear, I have Huffaker designed panhard rod, stock springs with number 4 leaf upsidedown on top, Doug Jackson adjustable rear spring mounts and Spax shocks although I will be changing back to lever shocks this winter. I am using a Mike Brown head and am quite pleased with it. Seven starts; six wins and a second place (a very fast 510), and one season championship.
Leland Bradley

I agree with the front being too soft. I have the negative cambe arms and they do help with steering response.

The plan that is evolving is a switch to poly bushes all-around. I will go to 600 + springs, but I need a way to determine ride height versus free spring lenght. Neil and Leland' when you switched to 600lbs springs, how did you determine ride height? Or did you just order and go with what came out of the box?

Pete
Pete

Pete,
In as much as my B is strickly race, I didn't check ride height. I just enstalled the springs and checked that they had the same height side to side.
Leland Bradley

Leland:

So how low does she sit? Too low to run on the street?

Another question, I was looking for the EBC Greenstuff brake pads; are they available for MGBs? I am running a set of V8 pads and am not real happy with the initial bite. I think it may be down to the increased surface area.

Pete
Pete

FWIW: I don't race, but the Greenstuff pads do seem to bite hard from dead cold. I have a standard '74 non-servoed dual loop brake system with drilled/slotted rotors and SS brake hoses. That car really stops now.
Ted

Ted. Am I correct that your car has a V-8 in it? If so, would you please contact me, off line, at the e-mail listed? I have some questions I would like to ask about such a conversion. Not really interested in it right this minute, but may be in the future and would appreciate some of your insight to help make a decision on whether to pursue my research further. Les
Les Bengtson

Pete,

Greenstuff are not really for racing but are available for B and also Wilwood 4pots, you can get them from Cambridge Motorsport in UK, perhaps try red although Mintex usually last and work for track use. You may also be able to get Carbon Kevlar pads from US.

Paul
Paul

Ted:

Where did you get the pads? The Mintex V8 pads I use throw a LOT of dust. I already have the stainless hoses and consider them one of the five best mods on the car.

The "Racing" I do is track days. As such, fade is not a problem. I think more friction is the answer. I ask about EBC because it is the only pad out there with any kind of feedback from the enthusiast: there may be better pads out there, but I would spend a lot of time and money doing the reaserch.

Pete
Pete

The most recent Moss catalogue lists the UK made EBC green stuff Brake Pads for the MGB as part# 585-630 for $59.95 USD. For the same price they have the Hawk pads, part# 585-610. With these they have a warning that due to the increased friction levels, brake life may be decreased.
SteveO

Leland,
Where did you source the adjustable bushings? I think to stay in SCCA F Street Prepared I can't use the negative camber arms, but adjustable bushings are OK. Also, how much negative camber can you get out of the adjustable bushings? I could end up just going to Street Modified so I can do whatever I like, but since I can't be as competitive there I'm keeping my options open until I really have to decide for next season. If these questions weren't enough, any chance I could impose upon you to give a measurement from the center of your front wheel hub to the chrome trim line on the side of the wing? Pete, I could use the same measurement from you if it is not too much trouble. In the past I have had such a hard time getting my front ride height dialed in to just where I need it using the uprated springs. Thanks very much, Dean
Dean Lake

Dean:

11 3/4 is the distance from the centre of the hub to the bottom of the chrome strip. This works out to 22 3/4 from ground to strip with 195-60/14 tires. I need to find some 600lb springs that will maintain this ride height.

Steve, thanks for the MOSS info, I checked their site and see where they have some of the stuff I need. In the past I had not been to happy with them so its been 10 years or more since I used them as a supplier. Maybe things have changed.

Pete
Pete

Dean,
I have no chrome strip on my fibreglass wings/fenders so I can't give you a meaningfull figure. I have offset bushings on the shock to kingpin bolt. I got those from Doug Jackson www.mgbmga.com. I got the adjustable bushings for the lower A-arms as a kit, including the A-arms, from a supplier in Oregon. They are good for about 2 degrees of adjustment. I will try a find the supplier's name but I bought them 15 or 20 years ago and just got around to installing them when I built my current race car, two seasons ago.
Leland Bradley

Pete,

I tried to be clever by guessing the front/rear weight distribution and doing a calculation based on the stiffer spring but shorter free length. Waste of time - nowhere near.

The car sits a bit lower with the new springs. I have an ST spoiler which gives about 3" ground clearance. That is not enough to clear all street obstacles, which is a problem as mine is a road car. Also, it is difficult to get a jack under.

Changing springs is an easy enough job (once you have done it the first time....) so I experimented with the spacers.

Do you really need an anti-roll bar on the rear if you have gone to an uprated spec on the suspension?

I use the Mintex 1141 front pads in V8 size. Stoppinbg is really good after first few presses. Dust is amazing though.


Neil
Neil Lock

Leland:
As I did, you probably got your lower a-arm bits from Marc Sayer at Performance Engineering in Eugene, OR. He's no longer building better Brit cars -- switched to Datsun Zs and 510s a long while back. I think PE went out of business. Marc throws a few items up on eBay occasionally when he runs across them in his attic. I bought a rear sway-bar reinforcement kit from him a couple of months ago.

Regards,
Jerry
Jerry Causey

Jerry,
Thanks for the update. I found PE's address on the box but no sense in posting it. Yes it was Marc I was dealing with; nice to hear he is still doing obsolete cars. My racing co-driver runs an 85 MR-2 and has a harder time getting parts for it than I do my B.
Leland Bradley

This thread was discussed between 14/10/2002 and 29/10/2002

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