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MG MGB Technical - Heuristics

The MGB has been out of production for 23 years. Yet, it continues to change because it is still a very popular automobile. The contributions of Paul Hunt, Steve S., and Paul Muechenhausen provide clear guidance to those of us, like me, who have owned and developed for many years. The MGB is alive and well. The owners are another matter. I will be 59 this year. Intellectually, I know that the closure of interest in these cars is upon all of us. My daughter, who is 28, and my son, who is 18, have other interests. Old British motorcars are not among them. Personally, I lament the passing of the old ways, but this too is self-centered. The future is hydrogen-powered automobiles, physical movement through worm-holes, and inter-stellar transfer of knowledge at light speed. The future can be bright, clear, and wonderful. Gentlemen, please don't allow it to perish in the blinding light of another sendseless war.
Charles Edwards

Charles,

Technically speaking, re-check the torque setting on your cylinder head.

It sure sounds like something is loose.
glg gimbut

What did he say? Send se less war? May be some sort of code? Did I miss the thread on the Hydrogen upgrade for the B engine? I read the one on worm holes, and I have decided to use plastic filler rather than lead. As far as transfering anything at light speed, I hope Lucas wasn't involved with the design work. Oh, I almost forgot, would Charles send some pictures of his daughter? She sounds like she comes from good blood and she would make a good wife, seeing how she wouldn't be taking the MG out while I was a work.
Mr. Lyons

Charles,
Thanks for your kind words. Don't let the wars and rumors of wars get to you. And as for the passing of British cars in this country, well so be it. Nothing stays the same as history proves, and we move on.

Nothing wrong about having an interest in these things even if they are passe'. Civil war re-enactors, antique restorers, and museum curators are just a few of those who keep us in touch with the reality of our past, and so are the people who drive old british cars. Smile, Charles, British Car Week is coming the end of May, and you can indulge your interest and enjoyment in your cars and feel a little more like you are part of something that touches a lot of people in a positive way.
Bob Muenchausen

If you were travelling at the speed of light in your MG and you turned on the headlights, what would happen?

A) They would light the way normally.
B) They would follow you down the road.
C) It's foolish to assume they would come on at all!
Steve Simmons

Hey Chuck,

Don't take what I said as a poke in the eye.

Yeah, we're getting old, and our beloved hobby IS a thing of the past, and the future looks rather dim.

But, like Steve says, (in a way), that is our fate, what with Lucus lighting our way.

Old MG owner don't die; they just fade away.


glg
glg gimbut

Charles-
Thanks for the compliment. You said "I know that the closure of interest in these cars is upon all of us." Well, it's certainly not upon me, and #3 Son will continue the hobby long after I'm gone.
Steve S.

Darn tootin' Steve... I know plenty of young 'uns that are keen on keeping the tradition going, especially my 2-year-old cousin who used to take model cars to bed instead of toy bears. It's in our blood, you see... nothing's going to stop us :o)

Peace
--
Olly
Oliver Stephenson

Someone needs to let those chaps at Moss know about the impending closure, so they can lower their prices while I'm still restoring my car!
Charles, I didn't interpret the gravity of your statements in the fashion that you intended. Please don't construe any of my contributions as condemnation of your gloomy outlook on the state of our hobby. This has come and gone over the years and tends to follow the general state of the news media, whether it be in the form of war, the economy or designed gas shortages.
We are all still here enjoying the cars, as we have for the last 40 years or more. Keep your head up and have comfort in the thought, that we are here if you need us, whether it be in the form of MG information, or just to have someone to share your thoughts with.
Cleve

I intend to retro fit my B with an Anti-Gravitron Device,manufactured by Nippon Lucadelco, First Quadrant, Sanfrangelos, Oceanania, sometime around 2030, ala those cars in "Blade Runner".
Andrew Blackley

My three year old is a car guy already, knows a lot of Brit cars, and wants me to get to work on his Mom's Bugeye. I was just talking to a 17yo who drives a mid-'60s Mini; I could go on. I get a lot of thumbs up and so forth from people young and old when I'm out in my car; and a particular type of car can't be popular w/o people being aware of them. One could see a major threat to the hobby being all the dumb present owners who's cars rarely make it onto a public road. Why should British Car week be something special? Drive them all the time! It's good for the car, the driver, and the hobby! On Sunday (A beautiful day) I went out for a nice long drive and guess how many LBCs I saw? NONE! I did however seeabout a dozen old American cars, about a hundred motorcyclists, and a Miata driver who blinked his headlights to me.
Wade Keene

Charles,

Regardless of war, my 17-year-old daughter has learned to drive a clutch in my '74 MGB; is constantly offering to take it off my hands; berates me when I talk of trading it for some other interesting collectable; and will not rest until she owns a mid-70's Land Rover. There is hope.

There are wonderful things to see in all directions, but you have to focus on them. War is hell, but that doesn't mean you can't acknowledge Heaven. In fact, you should while you can. Just because you have to park the car when you get there, doesn't mean you can't enjoy the ride.

Matt Kulka

My 25 year old has been driving a 1980 B GT for 6 years and my 21 year old has been driving a 1965 Sprite for one year - they both love their cars.

About 50% of my customers are under 30 so I don't think the following will die out just yet.

What saddens me is that the people who built the cars and know a lot about what happened at the factory are steadily dying out.

As long as someone loves the cars - their memory lives on.
Chris Betson

Apropos of using hydrogen as fuel - we might as well make NASA's next target a landing on the sun.

What, you say, it's too hot?

No problem, we'll land at night.

(MIT issued a study last week - hybrids and diesels are more energy efficient than hydrogen powered fuel cells and much less contributory to "greenhouse emissions". How's that? The energy it would take to crack the hydrogen out of its current chemical bonds.)
John Z

Steve:

Humm… Interesting question, and since nobody else seems to have the answer I think I will take a shot at.

First, we have to look at the basic question, “If you were traveling at the speed of light in you MG…” Geeze Are you kidding me? Have you ever gone over 70 in your MG? It’s down right scary above 75 in one of these things. (Believe it or not when I was in college I routinely got my B above 100 MPH when racing in the hills above Austin. When I think back on this I just can’t believe I did that. Well, not anymore. Who says you don’t get smarter the older you get.) So, you’re suggesting the speed of light? On that little 4 banger? Yea, right.

Now the second thing is, you thought your brakes were bad now, hello! Earth to Steve… I can just see somebody zipping along in the universe going to Moms house when all of a sudden one of those pesky mountain size meteors suddenly decides to make a crossing pass, “Uh oh, hit the brakes!” Poof, the brakes are gone, and then poof you’re gone. There wouldn’t even be enough left of you and the car to even sweep it up.

So now where are we? Attempting to zip along in the cosmos in a vehicle way not designed for such speed, but let’s say for the sake of this thread and argument that we have somehow managed to designed and install in our car the mother of all overdrives and that you can now somehow manage to muster up this speed. (I can’t help but wonder how much the car would rattle.)

I think the solution to this problem is something like the problem the designer had with the SR71 Blackbird. In case everybody isn’t familiar with this airplane, it’s the one that had some ungodly top speed, a service level way up there and got very hot when in flight because of the air friction which was the reason it was made of titanium. All this information has now been release to the public because several years ago the Air Force decided to retired them because they were too expensive to operate.

All this is important because since this plane was an air force plane it should naturally have machine guns installed on it like any other fighter would have. But it had one problem; the plane would soon run into any bullets it fired. So you could wind up shooting yourself down. Boy would that be embarrassing. Especially, at $$$$$$$$$$$ per copy.

So, to answer your question, if you were zipping along in your MG at 186,000 MPS, and it was starting to get dark, and you then you decided to turn on you head lights, what would happen?

I think, I think that when you went to turn on your headlights all that shaking and rattle would have caused that old bodged up Lucus headlight switch to finally burn up. You might get a flicker or two, but it would be no go. You would then have to send off the Moss for another one. And wait for another day to solve this conundrum.

What did you think I would say? Man, you people would believe anything.

Bryan
Bryan Prindle

Just for fun: Speed of SR-71A, 2,193.16 MPH.

I apologize to my British pals for not knowing Kilometers per hour!
glg gimbut

Kilometres per hour, apologies, not necessary, old chap, that's for the French, we still maintain a modicum of sanity here, even if we pay through the noses for our petrol per litre!
Martin
Martin

And a Heuristic is .... ?
David Steverson

In your case, to learn. I bet if we were all together in a room, these words wouldn't pop up as often.
Cleve

I thought heuristics were sorta kinda like aphorisms -- i.e., sayings; guiding principles; etc. What exactly does it mean? It's a cool word.
David

David, it's a cool word that usually means learning or finding solutions by using rules of thumb. Something we are used to when working on MGs because none of us are going about our repairs with totally scientific approaches.
Cleve

Bryan, so your answer is C? I think it would be none of the above. If you managed to get your MG to achieve light speed, one would assume the technology involved in such a feat would lend itself to other aspects of the car such as brakes, aerodynamics, a roof, etc. So, assuming we are now a light speed (for the sake of being scientific we will specify that we are at exactly light speed), if one were to turn on the headlights, then light would not extend past it's point of origin (the headlight) and would not trail behind either.

What may occur is a tremendous buildup of photons at the bulb center creating a super-intense pocket of light. This energy would be condensed into an infinitely small space since it is unable to sxtend forward or backward. Now when you hit the brakes, this energy would be released to travel forward on it's own until colliding with another object, which would be destroyed instantaneously.

What I'm suggesting is this: If you can get your MG to achieve light speed, you will have a headlight-mounted photon-based energy weapon of mass destruction at your disposal. Lets just call them "Death Beams"!
Steve Simmons

All is not lost... I'm sixteen and my first car is a 1966 MGB...
Stephan

I'd hate to guess the damage done to the dreadful cracks on the doors traveling at the spppeeed of light!

And to Stephan of Florida, Welcome to the hobby! Loads of folks here to help you keep it keeping on. Saftey Fast friend!
glg gimbut

Stephan, my first car was a 1966 MGB. I'm 30 now and it's still in my garage. I hope you still have yours at my age!
Steve Simmons

Steve:

Well er… actually what I think would happen is that everything stops moving at the speed of light, even the flow of electricity, which is also the reason your MG would have infinite mass and it’s not even possible. So, your bulbs wouldn’t even come on, even if you could move your arm to turn them on. See gets to be a real paradox. But anyway, it’s a lot more fun to make fun of Lucus. I just could resist the opportunity to take another cheap shot at the ol’ poor Prince of Darkness.

In all seriousness, my feelings are the Lucus jokes are unfounded. I don’t believe Lucus is any better or worse than any other electrical system that was made at the time. The electrical wiring in convertibles are subject to a lot of abuse, with first being occasionally rained on and then repeatedly modified by a secession of owners. These systems just weren’t design to last 30-50 years

The second thing I would like to say is that I don’t mean to make light of Mr. Edwards. I respect his feelings and am sure he is genuine in what he is saying. Like most, I can only hope that this issue can be resolved in a manner that will benefit all. This is not a time for grandstanding, saber-rattling or empire building.

In the future it might be best if political comments no matter how diplomatically stated, be posted on another board. I believe most posters on this board think comments such as yours are just too complicated and explosive to belong here. Good luck to you Sir.

Bryan
Bryan Prindle

"...just too complicated and explosive ..."

You're talking about death beams fired from MGBs travelling at the speed of light, correct?
Wade K.

"Complicated and explosive"! Now we are talking about carburetors! I can't seem to follow this thread because it keeps changing! Who needs death beams when I have wire wheels that can do plenty of damage when they fly off! (I just can't control when or where I plan to use them as a weapon)
Cleve

<<All this is important because since this plane was an air force plane it should naturally have machine guns installed on it like any other fighter would have. >>

The SR71 was designed as a high altitude strategic reconnaissance spy plane with cameras not guns. :)

Fun thread, though.
Carl

How ironic, two vehicles designed to leak while parked; SR-71 and MGs.
Mike Zaffarano

True. But the SR-71 seals itself once at speed. The MG gets looser!
Steve Simmons

Gack!
It's quite clear that the only way to get a MG to go light speed is to drop it into a worm hole. And with it's excellent handling characteristics this would be something it is emminently suited to, as manoevering the twists and turns would be second nature. However, headlights are totally unnecessary in such an environment, the way being more than adequately lighted by the streaks from passing stars and a good thing too given Lucas' patent on "intermittent light".
Jim Blackwood

Perhaps someone here used to watch a show called "Ask Doctor Science"? I think that's what it was called. Anyway, he performed an experiment to see what would, in fact, happen if you were to turn on your headlights at light speed. He got on a specially-prepared bicycle with REALLY high gears and pedalled up to light speed. He then flipped on his battery-powered bicycle headlamp. THe beam illuminated normally at first, but then to my delight it moved to the side, dropped behind him and followed him down the road. The answer was found!
Steve Simmons

Steve:

This is great! We’ve found something else we can accuse Lucus of. At the speed of light their headlights shine behind the car instead of in front! They can’t do anything right!

Hey, where are you Englanders to defend your national heritage?

Bryan
Bryan Prindle

Why not behind the car? At least this time the lights are on!

Somewhere WestofLaramie

I really think it poor form to be ridiculing Lucas or MG- they had it all thought out, and those lights behind at light speed were simply tail lights.
Ken R
Ken Rich

If I'm following this correctly, it means I'll be blinded by my own headlights in the rear view mirror......
Kenneth Thompson

Ken:

Well duh! Dip your headlights! Boy, some people just don't get it! ;-) *lol*

Bryan
Bryan Prindle

Total nonsense. It's all relative. At light speed the emitter doesn't know it's going light speed any more than the moving sidewalk knows whether you are walking or standing still. So the photons jump to double light speed obviously, at which point we can't see them anymore unless we are going light speed too. So if you are driving the car everything appears normal, but if you are watching it go by you are scratching your head over that fool buzzing along at light speed with his headlights off!

Jim
Jim Blackwood

If we could travel at a speed even greater than that of light... would we be going back in time... would the rust in my old car dissapear... have we finaly have found the solution to the dreaded tin worm problem... this is exciting stuff..

Angus
AJ Munro

Just think... you could take out your road rage on your fellow motorists and then accelerate to beyond light speed. It would never have happened! And they would never see you coming because your headlights would be behind you! :)
Steve Simmons

Angus - great thought but be careful 'cos if you go too far back, men in brown coats would unweld the car and put the bits back into the blast furnace........
Chris Betson

Chris,
Don't say it... don't say it...it's on the tip of my tongue...

I've got it...could this be...
"The road to hell" ?
AJ Munro

I once took a college course in the special theory of relativity. The professor gave us an example of two trains each going the speed of light approaching one another head on with their headlights on. When asked how fast the light from each headlight was approaching the light from the other headlight, most folks said 2 times the speed of light. Wrong answer - the trains and their light were approaching each other at the speed of light. The professor then did the calcs and illustrated the results with a graph to prove it.

Don't ask me to reproduce the proof because that was 28 years ago - I only remember the answer.
Richard Smith

They call it light speed for a reason - it is the speed at which light travels. Therefore turning on a flashlight while at the speed of light does not increase the light's speed. Of course this blows all my MG theories out the window, but I never have the windows up in my car so screw it. :)
Steve Simmons

Flaming 'eck!!!

And there's me worrying about what colour my new carpet in the BGT should be...

%->

Mmm, armchair physics! <giggle>

Keep it up guys, we could get a collective BBS phD on astrophysics at this rate!

~PHIL
Phil

This thread was discussed between 16/03/2003 and 22/03/2003

MG MGB Technical index

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