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MG MGB Technical - LHD 'Home Market' Steel Dash

I never really minded the pillow dash in my US spec. 70, but I sure do like the looks of the early steel dash, but not so much that I would want to go through the hassle of modifying the cowl, steering column, etc.to make one work.

On another BBS, Bob Munch, had a good idea, that maybe there were other LHD countries that had the "home market" steel dash on MKII or III cars like they did in the UK but LHD. Does anybody know? Maybe Australia, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, etc? Also, I wonder if they used Smith guages, existing cowl and steering column.

Clausager doesn't have much info on this.

Does anyone know or could point me in the right direction. That would be a unique modification.

Thanks!
-John
J Moore

John,
Australia would not be much use to you - we drive on the "proper" side of the road!
I saw a LHD body here in the sandblasters a few months ago which had the steel dash - I'd assumed it came from California.

Cheers,
David
David Overington

Thanks David,

I've been searching all day, lookng at late 60's early '70's MGB's, trying to get an idea if this would work. I think they are out there, but were produced in pretty small numbers.

According to the production numbers I've found, looks like possible candiates would have been sent to Germany or Sweden! LHD, between 1968- 71. And those in fairly small numbers... maybe less than 3000 or so.

I've been scouring international ebay, but found nothing yet.
J Moore

Hi John:

Canada got a few 68 4 syncro steel dash cars,identifiable by a GHN4L serial# as opposed to 4U as per the US 68. I've owned several, and they numbered somewhat less than 600 in roadster and under a hundred in GT (figures from memory) They had the early steel dash and matching cowl, 2 wipers, 4 syncro tunnel, later doors as per 68 on US, and NO emission controls! Sadly mid-68 saw the end of the these to Canada and we got the US version from that point on to end of production. There was a yellow one for sale on ebay in Quebec about 6 weeks ago that had had a 302 Ford added to it...
I also owned a 69 which had been imported to Canada from Germany by someone in the army, and it was as Canadian spec for 68.
I've only seen 6 different Canadian spec 68 roadsters and 2 GTs in the last 20 years up here, at shows, for sale and in junkyards, so our road salt, at least in the East probably looked after the rest of them. Hope this is helpful.
Anthony
Anthony Henderson

Anthony,

Thats an interesting tid bit. It gives me another place to look. I know of several Canadian parts places. I wonder if a '68 Canadian Spec dash is tucked away somewhere.

Today, I tried to search German suppliers for MG's for a used or new LHD steel dash. My German is not so great. So far it's been a fruitless search!
J Moore

Hi John:

You would have to change not only the dash itself but the cowl it bolts to. These Canadian 68s had the early cowl, to take the steel dash, so you would be in to changing the cowl, the steering column and mounts as you indicated in your first post. I recall changing the dash in the German 69 I had and using one out of an earlier 60s parts car. The German 69 had the early steel dash cowl as per US cars to the end of 67 US production.
As far as I know, finding a LHD steel dash that would fit the 68-76 US spec cowl would be an impossibility. I don't think they made any. I think, and I may be wrong, that even the RHD 68-76 Bs used the original cowl stamping for the home market steel dash, as it seems to me that they still had the original separate foam/vinyl dash roll like the steel dash early North American spec cars, indicating that they were using the original style cowl.
As I'm sure you know, a cowl from an early B can be grafted into a 70, and I have done one, but to do it right is a whole lot of work. I have seen graft jobs, where part of an early cowl has been added to the orignal, but...
Anthon
Anthony Henderson

Anthony,

I was under the impression that the steel dash used on MKII cars, fitted the changed cowl. But I could definitely be incorrect.

And your right. I don't want to change my cowl. I just got it back from paint about two months ago!

J Moore

Hi John:

From my personal experience with the 2 68 steel dash Cdn cars and the one German car all of which I did fairly major restorations on, the cowl was the same as the 62-67 cars. It is possible that there was a European market car with a different cowl in this time period/later than the 69 German one I had, but I've just looked at some pictures of early 70s RHD cars, with steel dashes, and to my eye, the dash top roll and the dash top is the same as all earlier steel dash Bs.
Knowing MGs love for not spending money, I can't see them having 3 different cowls on the go-1 for North America, which is actually a shorter cowl, as the padded dashes took up more room, one for RHD steel dash cars, and then a different one for what would be a very small production for other markets using a steel dash. yet similar in profile to the NA market one.
I was told by an ex-BL dealer here in Ontario, many years ago that the true 68 Canadian car with the steel dash 4 syncro was built to use up excess left hand drive steel dashboards.....who knows!! Anthony
Anthony Henderson

Just an FYI, Canadian-spec MGC also used steel dash. I'm not sure if all years did but I do know that at least the 68s did. I have a couple photos if they will help you.
Steve Simmons

Just to clear up any doubts,

RHD cars had the same cowel from the start of production to the end. When RHD cars got a plastic dash in '76 it was just a slab of plastic stuck to the front of a modified steel dash.

LHD steel dash cars all used the same cowl as the RHD cars. Most non North american LHD market remained with the LHD steel dash for some years after the US padded dash was introduced with its special cowl.

However, by the end of production I believe most if not all LHD markets used the North American dash which had by that time got its glove box back and was looking quite presentable.

What I can not tell you is which cowl the RV8 uses. I tried to find out as I want to convert a '74 US car to RHD. I thought that if the RV8 used the padded dash cowl it might be easier to use an RV8 dash than change my cowl. However, I found a cheap unused cowl before I had an answer to the RV8 question.

Hope this helps

David
David Witham

I'm working on my 70 BGT and discovered that if you skin the dash and remove the rigid foam in front of the passenger, it looks alot better. I may have to make some sort of wood trim to cover the mounting studs along the top edge and provide a visual delineation. FWIW

Jeff Pintler
Jeff Pintler

Eventually all LHD cars were to the North American pattern, warts and all, from the 77 model year from memory. However the North American dash mountings changed as soon as they got the padded dash in 67 (?) so reverting to an LHD steel dash still involves quite a lot of work.

FWIW Japan eventually got LHD North American models, even though they drive on the correct side of the road, as the emissions limitations were required.
Paul Hunt 2

Steve,

Send me a photo. That would be great.

David,

So if I understand you, since I'm not looking to modify my cowl, I'm on a wild goose chase. I was hoping that the European LHD steel dashes would be a bolt up job, which sounds like they are not. It would still require cowl or dash modification.

Jeff,

I've seen stripped dashes, some look better than others. But I'm looking for something that would appear to be stock.

Thanks!
-John Moore
J Moore

Thats correct John. A LHD steel dash requires the original type cowl. Such cowls are available from Heritage.

http://www.bmh-ltd.com/p61s.htm

David
David Witham

I used the Hertiage cowl to change my '68 B US roadster to metal dash. Fitted really well, but you'll need to do more..
The defroster outlets on the US cars are a bit wider than the Euro cars, only needs some drilling and filing to be able to use the US parts.
If youre going to buy a metal dash make sure you get the small parts like the three that strengthen the top of the dash.
Then you find you have no centre support to screw the metal dash to...requires sheet metal folding and welding, not too difficult.
I used the "correct" steering column for the metal dash, if you do youll need to get the bracket that goes on the scuttle and ideally you should weld a plate over the hole in the scuttle where the collapsable column exited the footwell...the Euro column seal needs a smaller diametre hole.
Still interested? There's more work...
Have you considered all the new gauges you need and their cost? If you go for the Euro column youll need a new steering wheel and horn push...$$$$.

This is starting to sound like a rant, so Ill end here.
I am still happy I did the conversion, because the body of my car was really good and I wanted a metal dash. To be honest, I didnt think it would take as much work and money as it did. All parts you need are available, but almost all only used which will take some hunting around.
If you really want a metal dash go for it, just be prepared.
A bit long, but maybe to some help to someone
Rufus
Rufus Pool

Very interesting. I made the conversion on my 68 B. It was not as hard as a lot of people told me it would be. It just takes patience and time. The most difficult part was getting all of the parts together. I cut the cowl off of a wrecked 67 then cut the cowl leaving the 68 windshield de-misters in place. They are larger than the 67 version. After that, I welded the cowl in place. By that time I had collected 3 early dashes and had all of them powder coated. I sold 2 on E-Bay and paid for the powdercoating on all 3 of them.

From there, I took the wraping off the dash wire harness and did each gauge/ignition,turn signal etc separately. When they were all done, I wraped the harness and put it back in place.

I had to build 2 brackets to attach the bottom of the dash to the square tube bar that runs under the dash.
This bar also makes installing the glove box difficult. I bought a new box but it does not fit. The opening does not go around the dash opening. To rectify this, I made a glove box from some very thin plastic from TAP plastics. I used my heat gun to bend it in shape. Glued it together with the same glue I use for black PVC pipes and then put a few rivets for strenght. I had to make it a little shorter than the original to work around the bar but it still works great.
Cris DeYoung

I also modded my car by fiddling the cowl. Mine was a 78 LHD US car converted to RHD before I got it. I don't know what dash it had originally but when I got it it had a horrible fibreglass thing (a repro maybe). I got a later RHD drive steel dash. The kind with the smaller instruments and the plastic front cover. I stripped that dash, filled in some holes and made others for the non standard instruments I am using. Then I had to get a RHD cowl which came off a GT I think? I did as Cris did and cut the cowl leaving the vents in place in the new piece but the windscreen support on the car then carefully welded in the proper RHD one. The US one has much more curve to it while the UK one is flatter and with a straight edge that the crash pad bolts too. The join will be invisible under the windscreen and vinyl covering piece. There are pics of this on my site: http://www.asciimation.co.nz/pics/page2.html

So anything is possible though it's a lot of work. As Cris said not hard but it takes time and some thought before you start cutting. And be brave making that first cut! I am just waiting for some decent hot weather to crinkle paint my dash. The gauges I used are made by a company called Pricol and the switches are original ones I rescued from old Brit cars in the local pick-a-part junk yard. I grab them whenever I see them. Not sure what I will do for the centre console. The two I have are both cracked. I can either glue them up or else make a custom one from fibreglass perhaps using an original to make a mould.

I've seen pics of those depadded US dashes on the net and they can look very nice painted the same colour as the car and with the emblem from a radio blanking plate installed in the middle there.

Simon
Simon Jansen

This thread was discussed between 20/10/2005 and 21/10/2005

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