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MG MGB Technical - Lifting engine & gearbox

Does anyone know if it safe to lift both engine and gearbox using the lifting brackets (12A1968) which attach to the two longer rocker studs? From what I've read elsewhere the total weight with OD would be about 330lbs, or 150kg. (engine ~250lbs, g/box ~ 50lbs, OD ~30lbs)
Richard Coombs

Richard,

I have been lifting that way since 1967 with no problems I have even used a hook around the rocker shaft.

Bob
Bob Fisher

Richard-
Yes, in fact that's the way that the factory did it on the assembly line. However, you have to be careful that the angle does not become too extreme as there is a hazard of snaping the studs off.

Pulling the engine out of the car is considered to be something of a Rite Of Passage for MGB owners, and need not be an exercise in fear. Get at least one friend to help out, as there are moments when it is not an easy job on your own. Although it may seem that the removal would be easier if the engine and transmission were separated while still in the car, the easiest way for the amateur mechanic to do it is to pull the engine and transmission out as one unit with the engine hoist located directly in front of the car. It is possible to pull the engine separately, but to do so incurs the risk of damaging the first motion shaft of the transmission. In addition, realigning the engine with the transmission still in place can be maddening for the unpracticed.

First, disconnect the ground (earth) on the battery. If you may be facing rebuild of the engine, you will find that it is best to remove the retaining bolt of the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer (harmonic damper) pulley wheel prior to removing the engine from the car. In order to loosen the retaining bolt of the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer (harmonic damper) pulley wheel for removal, the most professional method is to use an impact wrench after bending back the securing tab of the lockwasher. This method has the advantage that you do not have to worry about blocking the flywheel (if engine is separated from transmission, or blocking the wheels with transmission in gear). Another, and much more commonly used method for loosening the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer (harmonic damper) pulley wheel retaining bolt, is to place a 1 5/16” wrench / breaker bar against the left chassis rail (as you are sitting in the car). Put some wood or something thick and soft against the left chassis rail in order to prevent it from being scratched. Your wife's pillow is good for this (she won't mind you borrowing it for such a worthy cause). Take care to disconnect the High Tension (HT) lead of the ignition coil so that the engine cannot start. Blip the starter briefly, and the retaining bolt will be jarred loose. When reinstalling, note that there is a flat on the middle round section of the harmonic balancer pulley which you must hammer the tab of the lock washer down onto. This holds the tab onto the harmonic balancer pulley wheel, and you can then tab up the bolt head as normal. Be aware that the retaining bolt of the crankshaft’s harmonic balancer (harmonic damper) pulley wheel in the end of the crankshaft is not standard Whitworth, but is of Whitworth form: Diameter 1 5/8"-16 TPI, 1 1/16 Full Thread. If it is found necessary to clean up the threads, the operation must be confined to cleaning up only. These threads are highly stressed and must always be up to full size. Thus, it is not correct to use an American SAE - UNF form tap or die in order to clean up these threads, though you might get by in the end of the crankshaft, but definitely not on the bolt. To my knowledge, this is the one and only British form threaded fastener on any of the B Series engines. Note that BSF is 5/8”-14, rather than 16 TPI. UNF is 5/8”-18. CEI starts with 20 TPI at ½" and larger.

Remove the gearshift lever (gear change lever) surround, raise the gearlever boot, then unscrew the gearshift lever (gear change lever) retaining bolts and lift out the gearshift lever (gear change lever). Drain the oil from the oil sump , and then disconnect the oil cooler hoses (flexible pipes) from both the engine block and the oil filter stand, and then disconnect the oil pressure gauge hose (flexible pipe) or the oil pressure senor wiring, as the case may be, from the engine. Disconnect both the throttle and choke (fuel / air control) cables, and then disconnect the fuel lines from the carburetors. Remove the carburetors and intake manifold as a single unit, along with the exhaust manifold, fan, distributor, alternator, heater valve, hot water pipe, hot water hoses (flexible pipes) and oil filter stand in order to both lessen the total amount of weight to be moved about and to protect these components from being damaged. If your engine is equipped with antipollution equipment, it should also be removed prior to attempting to remove the engine from the car. This should be done not only in order to reduce both the weight and the bulk to be lifted and maneuvered, but to protect the antipollution equipment, Even if you have no intention of reinstalling it, you can always sell it on Ebay to an owner who lives in a location where emissions testing is a prerequisite for obtaining an inspection sticker! Drain the coolant from the radiator and, if you are fortunate enough to have a petcock installed onto the side of your engine, drain the coolant jacket of the engine block as well. Next, disconnect the thermal transmitter for the coolant temperature gauge, and then disconnect the coolant hoses (flexible pipes) from the coolant pump and the coolant outlet elbow housing. Now, crawl under the car. Do not forget to disconnect the front mounting bracket for the exhaust system located on the bell housing of the transmission and to remove the grounding strap. Chrome Bumper models have the ground (earth) strap on one of the front rubber engine mounts where it connects the engine front plate to the chassis. The Rubber Bumper cars have their ground (earth) strap on the right transmission mount where it connects from the forward machine bolt that holds the transmission mount to the transmission and the transmission crossmember. While you are under the car, remove both the electric starter and its solenoid, disconnect the clutch slave cylinder hydraulic hose (flexible pipe) and the clevis pin of its pushrod, and then remove the clutch slave cylinder from the bellhousing, as well as the speedometer drive cable from the main transmission casing. Next, disconnect the driveshaft (propeller shaft), and then disconnect the electrical connections of the solenoid that is located on the Overdrive unit. Crawl out from under the car, and then loosen the 3/8”-18 UNC machine bolts of the front rubber engine mounts, then remove the gearshift knob and the shift boot retainer plate. Be aware that ¼ x 28 (fine thread) x ½” PoziDriv countersunk round head machine screws are used to attach the transmission tunnel cover to the transmission tunnel, and they screw into welded-on nuts on the reverse side of the transmission tunnel, except for the front one which has a similar nut on a removable plate that covers the extended hole forward of the shift tower. They are unaccountably long and usually of two lengths, and stick down into the tunnel, where their lower ends rust. The length (and pointed ends on OE ones) is apparently so that you can get all the various layers aligned on assembly. The original screws are not Phillips head screws, although commonly mistaken for such. Be warned that if you use a Phillips head screwdriver, you will chew up the heads of these PoziDriv machine screws. If this mistake has already been made, replacements can be found at these firms: McMaster-Carr at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ , MSC at: http://www.mscdirect.com/ , or Metric Multistandard Components Corp at: http://www.metricmcc.com .

Remind yourself of how much fun you are having, then crawl back under the car, and remove the machine bolts that secure the rear transmission mount to the underside of the car. Now, crawl back out from under the car and whistle a happy tune as you proceed to remove the 4 machine bolts that secure the oil cooler, and then remove the machine bolts that secure the radiator diaphragm to the body of the car. Remove both the radiator and the radiator diaphragm, along with the oil cooler as well as its hoses (flexible pipes) in order to both give more room in which to maneuver the engine / transmission package and to decrease the angle to which the engine / transmission package must be tilted, making it extraction from the engine compartment much easier. This will also avoid damage to the radiator. Raising the rear axle of the car up about 8” to 12” on jackstands will allow the tail end of the transmission to drop down lower and give you a better relative angle. Beg, borrow, or buy a load leveler mechanism so that you can alter the angle of the engine in order to allow maximum maneuverability as you lift it in cramped quarters and make the extraction much, much easier. You might feel that such a device is an unnecessary luxury, but it is worth every cent not to scratch up your paint or dent and / or crease the sheetmetal inside of the engine compartment. This is why professional shops always have a load leveler for removing engines!

Removing the fan from the engine is a good idea if you are using a mobile engine hoist, as on some types of mobile engine hoist the fan can catch on it and be damaged. Place the base of the mobile engine hoist as close as possible to the engine bay and do not extend the arm of the mobile engine hoist any further than is necessary. Use the rocker arm studs as lift points only if you are certain that they are Original Equipment items as some of the replacement studs nowadays are of dubious quality. Most failures will occur as a load is applied at an angle to an attachment point, so make those attachments strong, or, better yet, make them nonexistent by using a sling. Although some use a length of chain enclosed in a bicycle inner tube, I prefer to lift the engine with a strap of heavy nylon webbing. Not only is it strong and easy to undo knots from, but its greater surface area in contact with the engine block makes slippage less likely to occur and it is less likely to damage paint. Pass the strap between the engine and its backplate, cross it over above the rocker cover and loop it under the coolant pump, and then tie the ends off with a simple square knot above the engine. With the hook placed behind the knot, it will not slip backwards, plus the square knot is self-tightening and will not slip either. Always remember the cardinal rule to never, ever, put any part of your body anywhere below a suspended engine.
Steve S.

Thanks Bob. Just what I wanted to know.
Steve. What a great reply! I feel I owe you an apology only because I have already removed the engine and g/box about 3yrs ago using the webbing method you suggested. I remember many times crawling under... but didn't try the whistling! Does it help? I shall certainly look into using a spreader for reinstallation.
The reason I asked the question was because I recently bought some brackets to help lift the engine around the garage and I was thinking ahead to putting it all back, perhaps using these. One thing I intend to do is to put a steel tube between the brackets through which to run a chain which goes to the hoist. The idea is to stop the brackets moving towards each other, thereby minimising the risk of bending or shearing the studs. Hopefully this would cover your first point. I think I would only use this for garage movement, not when relatively large inclinations are required.
Cheers
Richard
Richard Coombs

Richard,
I would recomend,from personal experience,that you NOT use the rocker studs to lift the engine and gearbox. I had pulled several B motors using this method with no problems. That being said the last time I did it the stud sheered,original equipment, and the gearbox ended up slicing my chin leaving a nice scar. Luckily I was not directly under it or I could have been in a world of hurt. Follow Steve's advice and you should be ok.
Tony
Tony Shoviak

Tony,
Ouch! I'll be real careful. I must admit to being a little wary of the bracket method for reinstallation.
Richard
Richard Coombs

I did it using the rocker studs but I made a single bracket from some L shaped steel. It's about 300mm long and 6mm thick from memory. One face has the holes to go through the studs and on the other face I drilled a series of holes and used a heavy chain attached with shackles. The engine lifter hooks onto the chain. The one bracket like that meant there was no chance of the studs bending. Being able to shift the shackles for the chain to different holes allowed us to shift the balance of the engine/gearbox about a bit too.

Can send a pic if it helps. It's still hanging on my garage wall!

Simon
Simon Jansen

Guess I have to ask, Why not just use a head bolt?
Bruce-C

Right of passage indeed.

I can pull the race engine from the midget in an hour and a half..... eight hours I seem to recall it took me to do the BGT with its gearbox! I hope the next time it comes out (I should swap the box as the OD is playing up) that it won't take that long.

I did use the lift brackets and the rocker studs did bend so when we put it back in again it went back using some webbing straps.

Simon a pic would be good.

Andrew
A I McGee

I believe Simon uses something like this. Notice that I use all rocker studs for a little extra security and this is possible if you put on a spare set of rocker stands as shown. I do engine pulls by myself and find the "tilter" helps considerably. The angle piece makes attachment of the tilter a snap. Also allows the mounting points of tilter to be opened up for better control.


G Oakes

Thanks all.
Simon, a photo would be good. I'm coming around to the view that I'll only use two lifting points (the normal brackets) when a straight lift is required. I'll go for your piece of angle and a leveller when installation time arrives.
Incidentally, a 500kg leveller in the UK can be had for about £30. Well worth it I guess.
Richard
Richard Coombs

Yes, mine was just like that. Here is a picture of it sitting on an old cracked hear with an old rocker assembly (hence being covered in sawdust and cobwebs)!

I just noticed my holes aren't evenly spaced. How embarrassing!

Simon


Simon Jansen

I didn't use a leveller but then again I had a friend helping me out. I don't remember that we had any particular difficulties. Doing it alone would be trickier but I wouldn't be afraid of trying it myself now.

Simon
Simon Jansen

I have lifted out engine & engine & gearbox units hundreds of times in the last 40 years - 30 years as an MG workshop- - MGA & B. I put the chain or hook under the rocker shaft between number 2 & 3 cylinders to lift the engine only & between 3 & 4 to lift Eng & G/box, this puts them in a very good balanced position but you need to push the gearbox down when fitting & removing. Put a sack or rag on it to stop it scratching the paint. I also put it between 2 & 3 cyls to lift the whole unit as it lets the rear hang down & then put a crowbar under the front of the rocker shaft to lever & lift the rear of the gearbox to get it over the cross member.Just think - the rocker shaft is 5/8" dia & most lifters/hoists have 1/4" bolt in the hook.
Garth Bagnall
Garth Bagnall

Garth,

FWIT a friend of mine pulled his MGA engine/gearbox to rebuild. He found his rocker shaft was fractured clean through (appeared to be a drilling fault). No apparent affect on engine running - he had other reasons for considering a rebuild.

The fracture was hidden inside the second rocker shaft pedestal mounting. Not sure I would trust the shaft with that lift loading.
Regards
Roger
Roger T

hi richard when fitting the engine and box in together i always use a safety sling as a back up .
p phillips

Steve S, wanted to thank you for the thorough step-by-step for engine removal. I made myself a nice checklist so I can have it in the garage when I accomplish this later this spring. I saved it as a .pdf and I'm happy to send along to anyone who might desire a copy. I also have an .xls version if you desire to edit. Let me know and I'm happy to email and pay it forward. Doesn't appear to be a way to add an attachment here on the forum, which I just joined. Let me know if there is and I'll attach. Cheers.

Randy
RS Jayne

Ah, found the button to upload a pdf. Hope someone finds it useful.
RS Jayne

This thread was discussed between 06/08/2009 and 27/03/2022

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