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MG MGB Technical - Rivergate 5 speed Question

I've been through the archives and found a lot of good info on the rivergate kit. But I was wondering if you can pull the tranny without the motor? To do a clutch job etc..?
Bill Mertz

I did not use the Rivergate kit. I used the NOvus kit, which uses a Nissan 280Z trans. I can pull mine with out pulling the engine. I don't usually. My clutch uses out lives the motor. 95000 out of the lastone.

Good Luck
Steve
Steve

Hi Steve- I am wringing my hands over which swap to do for the SC car. The current 1980 has the LE OD, works fine, but I'm after another trans none the less. My 71 cross-flow splitail has the Sierra 5 Speed, and it is great. Many have been aiming me away from the 280Z Nissan though, saying the unit is more breakable than others and now difficult to find replace units or parts.Sounds to me like that dog don't hunt, that parts and replace units should be readily available.
What's your experience may I ask? The shifter is bent and fiddled to get it up in the correct console spot, yes? How are the shift ratios, final drive, and feel and/or throw on the fly? Would you do it again? What is best guess on costs for us DIY guys?.
Would you recommend NOvus?
Sorry about the interrogation, but I am leaning to the Z trans. Most I've talked to really like it. Although more hassle to setup, once up and running, the reliability reports are all coming in excellent. Cost appears about 70% of the Sierra from RiverGate or HiFlow. Are there other swap types out there not mentioned so far? Cheers, Vem
vem myers

Bill, I just dropped my engine and transmission back in my car last night. I did remove my engine, but Rivergate did included directions on how install their kit with or without removing the engine.
Bryan

Vem, just dropping my engine and tranny in so I havent driven it yet, but directions from rivergate are clear and everything goes together beautifully. The gearbox's are out there...just change your normal hunt locations...you need to start talking to the nissan/datsun crowd. Wtih the exception of the transmission itself, rivergate gives you a replacement parts list. Most every part is in stock at advance auto.
Bryan

Thanks for the response. It seems like you can get 280 transmissions all day for pretty cheap. I like the looks of the kit a lot myself and the price is right. Never looked at the Novus kit however.
-Bill
Bill Mertz

Removal of the original MGB tranny without removing the engine "can" be done, but all who try it say it's a complete nightmare. Once the swap is done, though, the Datsun transmission can be pulled independently of the engine if needed.

I got my '83 280zx transmission from a local pull-apart (Bill Mertz - try the Pick-N-Pull yards in San Jose - one "North" and one "South") for $100. I had it completely serviced by a local shop for another $250 - inspection, cleaning, seals and bushes - and it's ready to go.

The Datsun transmission is easy to get parts for - any shop can do the work.

R.
Rick Stevens

Rick,
I actually have a pick n pull even closer in Oakland and one in Hayward. That is exactly what I was thinking of doing to source the tranny. Maybe even catch them on a half price day.
-Bill
Bill Mertz

Bill/Rick- So what totally custom made parts are required from the suppliers? Sounds like $350 gets the refabbed trans and another $900- 1200 for the special supplied "kit parts", which provide the adjusted shifter? I understand any of the 5 speed Z car trans, 240-280 will work. Bill, you sound committed, and I'd love to hear progress. As you may know, I'm spending lots of time at "On The Road Again" in San Jose, helping in the EDIS and EFI proto-hopes. Perhaps we could partner on the boneyard traipsing. Vic
vem myers

To find the transmissions, go to http://car-part.com/
Lots of them there!

I installed a Rivergate/Datsun with a 5-main B engine in a Magnette and it went together beautifully. Very high quality kit! And it drove beautifully. Only mod required: on cars originally equipped with 3-sync transmissions, the shift lever hole in the tunnel needs to be trimmed back about 1-3/4" . I understand the shift lever hole lines up correctly on the 4-sync cars.

I now have a second Magnette equipped with a 5-main B also but the PO did the conversion with a Novus kit. I'm about to take it apart and replace with a Rivergate kit. Need I say more?

FWIW,
Allen
Allen Bachelder

I bought a backplate adaptor at the All English flea market Dixon car show several years ago. The pilot bearing adaptor and rear trans mount from Rivergate. I used an early engine flywheel (alloy version) and a geared starter. The trans was $125 at the local salvage yard - make sure you get the late '82 or '83 trans with the higher geared 5th gear than the earlier trans. (.745 ratio)

The junk yard guy advised that if the salvage car has a bad engine, the trans is usually good, and vice versa. He turned out to be right in my case. The trans showed signs of being rebuilt and works just fine.

A local driveshaft shop can easily adapt the Datsun drive shaft to the MGB installation. The rear connection does not require a change. The MGB yoke will needed to be welded on at the transmission end.

In a '67 I had to cut a hole further back for the shift lever. I also had to use a 3 lbs hammer to knock out a 4" diameter 1" deep bulge in the trans tunnel on the US driver's side down low (68 and later = no problem) The bulge is not apparent inside the car.

I used the stock Datsun hydraulic slave cylinder. A local machine shop drilled the fitting out and rethreaded it to match the stock MG hydraulic fitting. $20.

An electronic sender from a late 80's ZX fit the trans. I installed a new tach & electronic speedometer which look nearly stock and now have a right on speedometer and tach.

I took out my late version overdrive which had worked just fine.

Results: about 70 lbs less weight, an evenly spaced rational set of gear ratios and a 5th gear that keeps the engine at 3000 rpm at 70mph. And I actually know what the rpms and speeds are with a fair degree of accuracy.

I would reccomend the conversion.

Barry

Barry Parkinson

*You may want to research this, or call rivergate. I think I was told any 5 speed from a 280 z - zx will work EXCEPT the turbo or 2+2 cars (if using the rivergate kit that is.)
Bryan

Vem - Barry pretty much covered it. I spent the extra dollar$ to get the rivergate "deluxe" kit, primarily due to my current working conditions - I have an apartment parking lot to work in, so I'm having a shop do the installation for me :( - but as noted, there are much cheaper ways to do this.

Also as noted: The best Datsun trannies for this are the '81 - '83 Datsun ones since these have the best ratios.

Bill - I've been to the Oakland yard, and it is better than the SJ South one, but the SJ North is a bit larger.

R.
Rick Stevens

I would not reccomd Novus. Their kit was the only one I could find way back then. After much fiddling around I got everything to work fine. Had to build my own trans crossmember and make other slight ajustments.
I would indeed go to a 5 speed again. My shifet is not bent. The shifter hole was made bigger and that took car of it for me. Most people who look at the car cannot tell the the shifter has been moved.
Shift feel is great. Since my motor is stock, I do not stress the trans at all. I drove it for about 20,000 mile with the original engine. When I changed engins I had the trans rebuilt just because. Now that I have worn out that engine, I had them go back through the trans. All they did was replace the bearings(said they did it, but saw nothing wrong aith the others.) I got 95000 out of that engine. The clutch still looked good. The springs in the clutch were weak, so I had some Jutter on take off.
I pick the trans back up today.
Cost: Used trans- $250 ( that was in 1988)
Kit from Novus- About $600? I really don't remember.
One thing I lke about this kit is, it useds the Nissan stater, which is easy to find that an MG.
I would recommend a 5 speed for the fun of driving.

Good Luck,
Steve
Steve

There's one last thing I failed to mention about the Rivergate Deluxe kit: They now provide a shifter for the setup. It is basically a welded dogleg with the proper threads on the end for your MG shifter knob. The weld is solid, not the prettiest - but it's well down where it's covered by the leather shifter boot.

R.
Rick Stevens

Gentleman- This, to me, is all good, and thanx for the in depth testimonials Rick, Steve, and Barry. I have been itching for the Z trans for no good reason: Now I have plenty.
It's curious that NOvus does so poorly on customer satisfaction and product quality. Aren't they listening to buyer's response?
Anywho, here I go, gimmee that Z boy. Vic
vem myers

The difference between the kits I looked at are pretty minimal. The backplate is the biggest difference. The Rivergate backplate has the mounting for the starter as part of the backplate. The one I bought at a flea market has the starter bolting directly to the trans with no backplate covering that area. The starter face is directly on the trans and the starter flange is next to the backplate.

The Rivergate backplate covers the entire face of the trans and uses an MGB starter. I bought a gear driven starter for the early MGB. I had to shim it out about 1/16th inch to keep the gear from rubbing on the flywheel ring gear. As indicated earlier I'm using a early style smaller diameter flywheel.(alloy version). The chamfer on the ring gear is on the back side and the starter engages on the front side. It engages perfectly every time.

On the '68 and later I understand the shift comes out very close to stock. I like the location. The lever comes "readily to hand" as they say.

The final issue is the throwout bearing. The Datsun has two length bearings - long and short -. You want the short version. You may also have to take the ring off the presure plate that the carbon throwout bearing slides on. With the roller bearing, the Datsun throwout bearing it works fine riding directly on the clutch fingers.

It's been almost two years since I put this all together and I forget some of the details. It seems like the little things take the most time.

Barry
Barry Parkinson

This thread was discussed between 16/05/2007 and 19/05/2007

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