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MG MGB Technical - Steeriing Gear Boot Replacement

In my never ending quest of knowledge it has come to my attention that I need to replace the gaitors/gaiters/boots on my steering gear assembly.

My question is:

Is the preferred method to remove tie-rod ends from left and right side to slide boots off or is there a alternative procedure? Or is there an aftermarket boot that is split that can be installed without disassembling the sterring gear assembly - like the early CV joint boots of years ago?

Also, as a matter of course - if I have the tie rods off; should I simply replacement them while I'm at anyway - regardless of condition? This is similar to the ole' replacing the clutch and not replacing the throwout bearing at the same time.

Thanks for your continuing support and assistance.

It is probably a good thing that the weather is so bad, I'm getting a very bad repair to drive time ratio this year.
R.W Anderson

If the tie rod ends are good I wouldn't replace them. To replace the boots loosen the tie rod jam nut at the tie rod and screw the tie rods out of the tie rod ends. Count the number of turns it takes to remove the tie rods. The boots slip off the rods. I've never seen split boots for the MGB, not even sure if you can still get them for any car. When you put it back together just screw the tie rods back into the tie rod ends using the same number of turns. Using the procedure described doesn't require a tie rod end puller and will get your toe-in close enough to drive the car.

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

I like the idea of simply unscrewing the tie rod end from the shaft, but can one unscrew this far enough without disconnecting the tie rod itself?
R.W Anderson

RW
Have a look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ428hwJn38

Kent
DK McNeill

That is an amazing video. Why is it I'm thinking my project will require torches and a lot of hammering!

This should be a 1 hr job, not a weekend job/per side.

Thanks for video link.
R.W Anderson

Hi
I have to change mine this off season as well and the video sure helps a lot
What a great use of youtube.
Bruce Mills

good video,
However you do not have to actually "crack" the tie rod ends. You'll note that the guy with 15 YEARS experience gave the end a real hard whack in just the right spot. It can be difficult to get the bolt off without damaging the rubber seal. That doesn't matter if you are putting on new ones, does if you aren't. You can buy a small clamp designed to do this without the BFH by the way.

Just unscrew the alignment adjusters all the way as Clifton suggests.
I would also suggest that you mark the thread with typing corrector white ink incase you loose count. Also start with the steering wheel in "dead straight" position.
Peter

If you leave the track-rod ends attached to the steering arms and turn the track-rods to unscrew them from the track-rod ends you should mark the rotational position of the track-rods as well as counting the turns, in fact you may well need to do that anyway to count the turns accurately. Just think how far the wheels turn anyway and you will see that the track-rod ends could be screwed onto the track-rods a foot or more and still be able to be removed.

But breaking the taper between track-rod end and steering arm, then unscrewing the track-rod end from the track rod is a far easier way of doing it - as long as you have a scissors tool to crack the taper. Whichever, you really need to have the tracking checked afterwards, it may be off before you start.
Paul Hunt 2

Well, I did the boot replaced on the Right side of the 72B. While the video implied it was a 10 minute job I knew better.

It took 3 hours & another pair of hands to get one side apart and back together again. Why! Getting the lock nut loose on the steering arm was the only problem, and it was a major problem.

I had presoaked nut with w/2 different types of penetrating fluid, and if anyone remembers the miliatry Gun Lube 600 from the 70s - they know that spray penetrating fluid disolves anything; its never failed me, until now. I soaked nut several times, but it did not loosen. A neighbor came over with his torch and we heated nut & nothing, it didn't budge!

Then the decision was made to heat nut until it was red hot! With a pipe wrench and lock wrench on steering arm and box end wrench on nut we were able to move the nut 1/8 to 1/4 of turn at a time, but the heat of nut and arm quickly transferred to wrenches too. With more fluid sprayed (& vaporizing)on nut and arm it was a long slow process to get the nut off. Once off, it took 15 minutes or so to get old boot off and new boot on and tie rod reconnencted to steering arm.

Of course my marks on where to re-adjust toe-in were destroyed in the process. So much for getting things back to where they were. Next I got a tape measure out and adjusted toe-in to about 1/4" of specs (if we can even use the term "specs" at this point), given and acknowledging that I have no idea if all the toe-in is divided between the wheels or all on one - which I think it is.

Anyway the test drive went well, no pulling and steering wheel is close to center. So now to decide when to start on the left side boot, which isn't leaking.

If nothing else, I'll everything nice and loose for the shop when I do get it in for a Real Toe-in adjustment.

I'm - "on the road again"! Thanks for all the assistance.
R. W. Anderson

I have recently replaced my "steering boot/gaiter" and one is leaking around the end, where I zip tied it. Is there a proper/better way to seal the ends of the gaiter other than zip ties?
Regards
Tony
Tony Bates

Hi

From the Moss site http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=29018


5 CLAMP, rack seal, large 262-180 $2.05

6 CLAMP, rack seal, small326-325 $1.95

I am surprised they didn't come with the kit.

Bruce

Bruce Mills

My kit came with 2 boots, and also 4 zip ties - which I did not consider to use. I used metal clamps instead.

I wonder about zip ties even being practical.

How would one loosen them when it comes time to adjust toe-in?

If you couldn't loosen them how would you turn the steering arm without twisting the boot; and if they were loose enough to enable turning steering arm are they then too loose and enable leaking!

R.W Anderson

You don't loosen ties - you cut and replace. Even so they will leak out of the big end longer than the little end, but it is the little end that needs to be loose enough to turn the track rod, so the big end can be done up tight. But in practice they can be tight enough to turn the track-rod without leaking. The seal surface is about 3/16" wide, much more than the lip of an oil seal, and under more pressure than the lip of an oil seal, and they don't (shouldn't) leak.

Mine needed to be heated red-hot to break the rust the first time I had them done. The first thing I did when I got it home was to slacken the lock-nut again and put copper-grease on the threads, it's been fine since (or at least the last tiem it was done).
Paul Hunt 2

Okay, what's copper-grease?

I have an abundance of various greases on hand, even some old stuff called GRG from the military - great for holding gaskets in place (like on a valve cover) while messing about getting things back together - you can't knock a gasket loose when this stuff is holding it in place. GRG is similar to hard wax that would stay in place almost forever. Is that the idea.

Also, good (in the misery likes company theme) to see I'm not alone in the need to heat something to a visual red to get things loose again.

Next time in garage, I'm loosening nut again and re-greasing the threads. For now I have Gun Lube 600 in the tie rod and on the shaft threads and nut.

I still have another boot to replace but I need to rest hands from wrestling with last one before I start this all over again.
R.W Anderson

RW
In renewing the rubber gaiters you will have had to remove both track rod ends and may have damaged the rubber boots in doing so. Unless you know that your track rod ends have been replaced in the not too distant past, it is false economy to put the old ones back on. A pair of track rod ends is less than £20 in the UK and make sure you get new High tensile locknuts as well.
Dont forget to Copper grease which is exactly what it name suggests and is used because it doesnt wash off easily.

Rob
R J Collier

Copper grease is copper coloured, but whether it has any copper in it is another matter. Like Rob says it is long-lasting, I've just replaced the springs on my V8, quite a few years after replacing something else, and the bolts were still showing the grease. They also came undone vey easily, once I had broken the initial torque.

I have found that you *will* damage the rubber boots on the track-rod ends using pretty-well anything other than a 'scissors' tool. But if you haven't got one of those and still want to remove the track-rod ends without damage in order to reuse them (they could be pretty new), remove the bolts securing the steering arm to the hub instead of trying to crack the taper between track-rod end and steering arm. As far as changing the gaiters is concerned the effect is exactly the same.
Paul Hunt 2

Okay, now I'm really confused.

In an effort to keep us comparing apples to apples or rods to rods and ends to ends, what is a track rod end? Is this what I call the tie-rod end.

What rubber boot is being damaged when replacing the gaiters/rack seals?

All I know and all I saw was a nut to loosen from the tie-rod to get the tie-rod out of the tie-rod end. Once free of the tie-rod end, I simply slid the bad rack seal/gaiter/tie rod boot off and put a new one on, clamping the inner end of boot to steering housing and leaving the outer end loose until I had everything back together.

I don't see how one could damage the boot in the process unless we are talking about another boot elsewhere.

Is it the boot attached to the tie-rod end you are talking about and not the boot over the tie-rod?

I never removed the tie-rod end from the car. Didn't see the need. And I locked the tie-rod in place using vise grip so that I wasn't compressing or twisting the tie-rod end boot.

I'm just being stubborn here, not uppity (sp?); you guys all know more about all this than I do - I'm new to MGs.

So before I move on to the next side tie-rod boot I need to clarify what is being damaged in the process that I'm not aware of.

I'd go back to fixing bicycles, but they are getting too complicated these days.

My appologies if this is taken harshly, I'm typing fast inbetween terrible policy meetings at work. So have mercy on my weakend soul!

Thanks.
R.W Anderson

Track rod end = tie rod end. You didn't remove the tie rod end, so the tie rod/track rod end boot should not be damaged. Hope you day improves.

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Copper grease does have copper in it. So don't use it between dissimilar metals. And I've read that it reacts with brake dust too (goes hard), but cannot vouch for that.

And I wouldn't heat load bearing components up until they are red, unless you are a metallurgist and know exactly the composition of the material you are heating. Heating changes material properties, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

And you don't need high tensile locknuts, any old nuts will do unless you're going to tighten them up so tight that you'll need to heat them up to get them undone... and I wouldn't do that either! Also, if some goon at place you get the tracking done overtightens them, you'll want the threads on the nut to strip rather than the track rod end.

Seems to me false economy to put the old track rod ends back on. You will probably damage the little rubber boot that goes over the ball joint (it's not really a ball joint, I know) on the track rod end. I think that's what Paul means, and I agree.

One last thing, don't fill up the track rod end with grease or you will find that the hydraulic lock stops you from turning it on the shaft.

Neil
Neil22

The auto parts store near me seal rubber boots. They are generic but come in different sizes.
I don't usually hurt the boot when I remove them. I do it like in the youtube vidio.

Steve
Steve

If you have not purchased one, buy a nut breaker and add it to your tool collection. This inexpensive little tool makes short work of stuck nuts. It literally is a screw press with a metal wedge that splits the nut in half and does not damage the threads.

Our Wisconsin winters (more precisely, the salt used in Wisconsin in the winter) freeze nuts to the point that even heat will not help. Much easier to break the nut off the bolt.
BEC Cunha

BEC

'Our Wisconsin winters freeze nuts to the point that even heat will not help, Much easier to break the nuts off'

Ive really got to admire the balls of you guys over in the States. It makes my eyes water even to think of what you guys go through!!

Rob

R J Collier

This thread was discussed between 18/10/2007 and 24/10/2007

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