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MG MGB Technical - Steering What is normal?

Hi all.

Had a great weekend on the road with the B GT. First time for a longer drive since restoration.

The last B I owned was back in 1980, and the steering in the GT feels stiffer than what I remember. It is a lot stiffer than my TD.

King pins were greased, and there is no play in them.

steering wheel in the 67 is from a 70. I believe it is slighly smaller than the original wheel.

Tires are 175/70 R 14. set at 30 pounds of pressure.

With the wheels off the ground, it takes a bit of push to move the wheels.

Car tracks perfectly. No wheel wobble or drift.

Checking the oil in the steering is next up for the weekend, but how does one know if the rack and pinion unit is ok?

Bruce Cunha

Bruce, how are your bushings (a-arm and upper trunnion)? I just replaced mine with the poly ones and it made a world of difference to my steering.

Kelly
Kelly Leahy

The wheels should move easily from side to side with hardly any effort when front is jacked up. In fact the manual cautions you about slamming them into the stop as it can damage it. I would try removing the top of the steering box and re-shimming the damper as a first step. the other possible is mis aligned steering column.
S Best

Whilst pushing at the road wheels with the front raised off the ground will take a bit of effort to get them *started*, it should fly from lock to lock once started, but don't crash into the stops as previously advised. However you should be able to turn the 'steering' wheel with the front of the ground with a little finger and no effort at all.
Paul Hunt 2

Jack up the front of the veh. loosen the steering rack mounting bolts, & recheck steering effort.Thin shims used under steering gear, larger ones under column. I used 4 flat washers under the front bolts, 2 under the rear steering gear mounts, (easier than shimming the column. Test steering effort with a inch/pound torque wrench on the nut under the horn button.
Len Fanelli

The 67 has a higher geared rack than later rubber bumper models and used a larger steering wheel which was still heavy. So check mechanicals as others say but maybe it's just normal.

Rich

Also check the column U/J, they can get tight unless they are lubricated, my friend's GT responded to a squirt with WD40 , loosening up dramatically.

Mike
M Barnfather

As always, I am appreciative of the recommendations and you have given me some points to look at.

Front suspension looks good. Rubber bushings appear to be ok.

I don't know exactly what was used, but the steering comlum on this was changed to accomodate the later (1970+) steering wheel. The shaft looks just like the older one except there is no horn button or turn signal indicator reset tap on it and the diameter of the teeth are different. I thought the later columns were collapsable? At least for US cars.

I am going to change it back to the original (car had the original in the boot when I got it.) I will go over the U joint, check the oil, check the shims and see what that does.

Paul -- Going by your description, I believe something is not correct. I thought it shoudl move rather easily with the weels up. Now to find the culpret.

Bruce Cunha

When you have the column off, try the wheels again. If they move freely then you have isolated the problem area. My car is a 67 and despite the higher geared rack the wheels move very easily, it does have a Moto Lita rather than the factory sprung steering wheel though.
S Best

Bruce, I have a hunch that it is your king pins that are tight but you can check very quickly. Previous posts have itdicated that it should be very easy to move the road wheel from lock to lock and I agree with this. Jack up the car, take off the road wheels, remove the track rod end bolts and split the taper joints. At this point you should be able to swivel each hub completely freely from lock to lock. If not you will have to dismantle the swivel pin assemble, check for condition, greasing and adjust the shim pack. Also with the track rods disconnected you should virtually be able to blow the steering wheel round. If not, then it is either an alignment problem or steering box shimming but if you havent touched this I think its unlikely. Presumably you moved the rack from lock to lock before you fitted it in which case it can only be alignment.

My bet however is kingpins.
Iain MacKintosh

If I've read it right, a PO fitted the 70 column to a 67 rack? My guess is the alignment of the two at the UJ wasn't set. Adjustment should be done by shimming between the rack and crossmember, but it would be tempting to ignore if they were hoping for a quick job, or maybe they bodged it by forcing the column fixings?
Steve Postins

Could be Steve but I would have thought that Bruce would have moved the whole assembly from lock to lock before he connected the track rod ends, Maybe not, but didn't he do the restoration this time round ? Additionally it might have been difficult to connect the UJ if there was shaft misalignment and also wouldn't the steering wheel become tight and slack as it was rotated ??
Iain MacKintosh

Because one or other of the steering column or rack has to be loose if not completely disconnected from its mountings to fit the UJ it's easy to get them significantly misaligned, which only puts pressure on the bearings when the mountings are tightened. This won't cause loosening - tightening as you turn the wheel unless one of the shafts is bent, but will apply constant pressure on the rack bearings and bushings and will soon wear them. You may not even notice any difference at the steering wheel because of the leverage, especially with the road wheels on the ground. This is why column and rack should be mounted *without* the UJ first, the alignment checked and adjusted with shims, then one half removed to allow fitting of the UJ then refit with the shims.
Paul Hunt 2



Iain:

I like the step by step approach. That way I can check out each part in the system. I did not remove the steering in the restoration. This is how it came to me. Sounds like a good weekend project and something I would like to have better piece of mind on.

Steve Paul and Iain. Did the 70's B in the UK have the collapsing steering column? If I remember my Clausager, the 70 UK MGB still used the solid steel steering shaft. It could be that the PO changed it to a UK shaft to keep it more original but still use the 70 steering wheel. The tube looks just like the one I have that is a 1967 but the steel steering shaft is not the same. A clue that this could have been what was done is that the car was fitted with a steering column cover that was for a right hand drive. It was put on upside down.

Iain: Quick check on verbage. Taper Joint? Would this be what we call the ball joint? and I think your track rod is our tie rod?



Bruce Cunha

Sorry Bruce, I should get my US terminology right. You are correct, ball joint if you wish and tie rod is fine by me. To avoid removing the ball joints you could just remove the two bolts holding the steering arms to the rear of the hubs if you wish. The 70 car did have a solid inner shaft, from memory it was not until the 72 model that this was changed. Alignment between the shafts is important but you may find that the column/rack assembly is very free once you disconnect the steering arms. Its worth a try before you start pulling other things apart.
Iain MacKintosh

Yes, UK cars kept the solid column much longer than North America. My 73 roadster has the solid and my 75 V8 the collapsible. However without Clausager to hand I can't say whether the V8 got the collapsible *before* the 4-cylinder UK cars or at the same time. The mountings at the bottom and in the firewall are quite different - the solid just poking through a hole as I recall and the collapsible having three bolts. The firewall is also different having a deeper recess (again I think) for the collapsible. In fact the change on UK cars may have occured with the change to rubber bumpers as that is when they got the V8 cross-member.
Paul Hunt 2

Correction Paul, well maybe. Both my 72 cars (GT & Roadster) have collapsible columns and are original. Their chassis numbers are quite close at about 282,000 and I have a feeling that the column was changed for the 72 model year i.e from Aug 71 on when the 18V motor was introduced. Like you though I'd have to check the Clausager.
Iain MacKintosh

Just another thought here folks. My 72 cars with the collapsible colums have the same mountings as earlier cars just poking through the hole and dont have a three bolt flange. Perhaps there was an ninterim situation as it soulds like tho one Paul is referring to has a collapsible perforated outer column. The arrangement on my 72 cars is that it is only the inner that collapses and these have square ends one being the male the other the female. There is a nylon insert between the two halves which shears and allows the inner to telescope. The outer just slips on its mountings and pokes further through the firewall hole !! Poor show.
Iain MacKintosh

I think that is it. The Parts Catalogue shows an earlier collapsible used on non-North American cars for the 72 model year on (as Clausager indicates) until they all used the same one when the rubber bumpers came in, that is the one with the three bolts in the firewall. I'd been going by the Workshop Manual (1976 issue) which only shows two types - the one that is externally identical to mine in the 'non-collapsible' section and the later 'three firewall bolt' type in a separate section entitled 'Energy Absorbing Column'. It does have different removal and refitting sections for cars from 258001 on, but as I say that is in the 'non-collapsible' section and makes no mention of it being collapsible.
Paul Hunt 2

I'll have to look the parts book but UK cars from 258000 on certainly seem to have a collapsible inner and so the part number for this shaft should be different. It seems that this is a poor attempt at a "collapsible" column which lasted a couple of years only until the "energy absorbing" column was fitted at the start of rubber bumper production.
Iain MacKintosh

Seems we may both be correct here. Both my 72 18V cars have a collapsible (telescopic) inner column which is held to length by a nylon shear pin assenbly. There is no mention at all in the Claussager about this except to say that North American cars were fitted with an energy absorbing column from 258000 on. I suspect that it was with the advent of the 1974 1/2 cars that we benefitted from the fully collapsible unit. Seems that lives are cheap in the UK.
Iain MacKintosh

This thread was discussed between 12/10/2005 and 24/10/2005

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