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MG MGB Technical - Swap to Jap engine
| Hey All I Know that this well upset some folks. But is there any one out there that has swapped there OEM engine out for some snappy little Japanize or USA four or six banger? That may not be as much trouble as v8 conversion. I want my car to look good, run well, and I want keep it on the road cheap, so my wife won't give me that "your buying another part for that car" look. |
| Poyndexter |
| Actually the V6 conversion would probably cost less than trying to fabricate and fit a four because you can buy kits to install the V6. I have seen MG's with Volvo, Datsun and Vega engines so it can be done. Don't expect to make a change for a few hundred $. It takes lots of know how to make a good professional engine conversion and make work as it should. Among the major problems you would have to work out; motor mounts, exhaust routing, clutch hookup, drive shaft to transmission hookup, cooling system, hood clearance and a multitude of unforeseen problems. After getting the engine and drive train worked out you still have an old Lucas electrical system that will either have to be replaced or have extensive changes to adapt it to the conversion. In summary don't expect to save money by making an engine conversion unless you have a well equiped shop and have lots of know how. FWIW, Clifton |
| Clifton Gordon |
| Rice burners don't leak oil, they run smoothly, they have lots of power, and they don't smell of hot gas and oil. Why in GOD's name would you want one in an MG. |
| Fred Horstmeyer |
| Oddly enough , one of the MGB's I scrapped out had this conversion partially done to it - the engine was all done , he never finshed up the body work . It was a Datsun A-16 (pushrod 1600) engine , only took a couple simple weleded brackets an the frame , lots of clearance all 'round . if you're interested I have a _brand_new_ (not rebuilt) Datsun A-16 engine for $250.00 right here in Los Angeles , fan to clutch , carby , alt. etc. Why not sell your MG to an enthusiast and buy a Datsun Roadster ? plenty of them to be had . A good part of why I love my MG is the running gear - I'm a mechanic and I like to fiddle with it , keep running 'just so' , I think converting would destroy the character of the car . just my .02 . -Nate |
| NSH |
| I think converting to a V8 retains the character just fine, and all the bugs have been worked out. It's the most common swap ever done to the MGB so every question has an answer and a solution. It's no more expensive than any other conversion, so it's the most bang for the buck. Drive one just once and you will instantly become a convert. Jim |
| Jim Blackwood |
| There's a cover story in this month's MG World Magazine about a fellow in GB who threw a Ford Cosworth 4-banger into his B. I think he had 300 horses ripping out of it. More than enough to stomp on most oncomers, including V8's. |
| Daniel Wong |
| 99.5% of all new jap cars engines turn the wrong way one exception is the new honda s2000, ohhhh that would be nice just wait till some crashed ones start going into the yards. |
| Ross |
| Nate: I've read that the Datsun A 1600 is a licensed version of the good old B series so it isn't surprising that the conversion is so easy. Does the block look the same? The engine to use would be the 2000cc OHC derivative used in the Datsun roadster. 135 HP and a 7000 RPM rev limit. Are there really many available out there? In the Southeast they are rarer than hens teeth! |
| Terry |
| Terry....actually, the Datsun engine was an offshoot of the Sunbeam Alpine engine....but, the principal is the same & it should fit as easily....but, why? what's the advantage? they are smaller than the original B engine, don't put out that much more power, & complicate lots of things (wiring & metric vs standard as minimums)... ...if you're going to all that hassle, why not go the V6 or V8 route....or, there's a neat 16-valve, 4-cylinder Ford engine that's found in some of the hot Taurus models...they can be picked up reasonably at most salvage yards |
| Tony Barnhill |
| I looked at a '78 "B" last year that some schmuck had used to tow a U-Haul Trailer over the Rockies and blew the engine in the process. He replaced it with a Mazda 4 banger and transmission. Ran nicely, lots of oomph but come on, it just ain't the same thing, now is it? You want a Japanese power plant buy a Miata. |
| Steve |
| There was a short write up in NAMGAR's "MGA!" magazine last quarter about a guy who successfully transplanted a Miata engine and transmission in a MGA. Hey, whatever floats yer boat. |
| Art DiLello |
| Ross, AFIK the Honda engines, other than the S2000 are the only Japanese engines that turn the wrong way, Nissan and Toyota do not. |
| George B. |
| The best place for a JAP engine is the front of a Morgan trike. |
| V. Twin |
| If most Japanese engines turn counter to other engines - then how do those Nissan 5 speed-to-MGB tranny conversions work? Notice my use of the full word: Japanese. |
| Daniel Wong |
| Seriously. Not that this BBS needs to be the haven of political correctness, but calling stuff "Jap" is really pretty crude and unnecessary. |
| David |
| Gee, By the same token calling the United States the US and British Brits is unacceptable, too? Find something else to complain about! Believe me there is plenty of things more important that shortened names. |
| gerry masterman |
| Gerry, and to everybody else who are not in the know... Let me try to be quick because I don't want to get all PC and blubbery here - and, hey, as "B" owners, we're all sort of bonded together as a loose-knit family. Better that you hear this from a family member than from a complete stranger. I don't think the terms: "US" or "Brits" are perjoratives, and in as far as I know, the term "Brit" was/is always used as a term of friendliness or folksiness. I do not use these terms often myself, but if I'm wrong on this - somebody please correct me and I'll stand duly corrected and I'll be more aware. On the other hand - the word: "Jap" was/is never used to connote a positive or neutral sense of anything and is always used in the negative sense or as a disparagement. It is more than just a "shortened word" and I would advise against it's open use while dining at your local sushi bar or while observing a Kendo match. Nobody I know ever uses a shortened racial perjorative to describe, say, German cars, or Italian V12's, or French-built F1 racers, etc. - at least, not while sober and proud. I happened to be Chinese (US born) - and over the years I've had the words "Jap", "Nip" and "Slope" arbitrarily tossed at me from across streets and passing cars, while strolling along on errands, in buses and subways, while standing in line at a burger joint, or while out on evening dates in all various cities across this great land (...funny, I've never experienced it while in any other country). I can say from personal experience that it is not very uplifting. In fact, whenever it would occur openly and loudly in public - it never failed to stun everybody else who was within earshot into a collective gasp - irregardless of their race. I used to be flexible on this whenever I heard it coming from a WWII-era veteran or 50's baby boomer, but it would still cause me to grimace nontheless. At least it quickly revealed to me the sort of the person I was dealing with. As they say - the reflection goes both ways. I know that the word as used here on this particular thread - as well as on other threads on this BBS - was never intended to bring anybody down, per se, but - it's usage isn't clever, it isn't sophisticated, it isn't creative (unless you're a rap artist), it doesn't read well or connote an elevated level of social sophistication or awareness by it's author, and worse...it isn't funny. OK...I'm stepping off of my soapbox now and running for cover. ...so, uh, has anybody successfully installed a late '90's model GM Quad 4 into their "B"? I figuire it's our closest thing to a Ford Cosworth 4 banger (and cheaper, too). |
| Daniel Wong |
| If I knew how to spell Jap+an&knees. I would not have abbrivated. same with Cal&if+or&n*ya. |
| Poyndexter |
| Daniel, Being from the south I have heard Bubba, Rebel, Redneck and many others to refer to someone from the south. They don't bother me in the least. I have watched Dukes of Hazzard and not been offended by the negative image presented to the rest of the world. They very well could be taken in a negative context if I wanted to, but I don't. I've got far larger things to worry about than being offended by something that I "think" someone means. Perhaps when we quit worrying about what someone "might" mean we can move on to solving the more important problems in this world. |
| gerry masterman |
| Good thing people don't try to guess what I am by my appearance. If they wanted to get ignorant about my ethnic backround, they'd have to call me at least 8 diferent slurs, I'm such a mutt. Sorry you have to deal with that crap, Daniel. Such is life in the melting pot. I hope you consider the source and dismiss it for what it is. And, I'm not sure that the English are crazy about being called Brits, for the record. I know some that are not, anyway. As far as putting a Japanese motor in an MG, though... I just don't get it. Like previous posters said...just go buy a Miata. Tony |
| Tony A. |
If you think that the English aren't keen on being called Brits. Try calling some of the other "Brits" (Welish and Scots) English. I would say that Jap is a term closer to "limey" or "pom" than Brit. |
| Chris |
| I think V TWIN was talking about JAP engines- correctly J.A.P. like B.M.W. A V- twin for the old Morgan Three-wheelers- first appearing about 90 years ago. Ken R |
| Ken Rich |
| J.A.P=J.A. Prestwich or sumthin' Used to see their 500cc fourstroke engines on flat track bikes years ago. Wonder if they are still around? |
| gerry masterman |
| To answer Dan's question about the Quad4. I saw a B at MG'96 in Indianapolis that had the Quad4 installed. The guy said it was great; but it had to have been an early Quad4 which wasn't exactly the most balanced engine in the world. I wish I had more info for you. I don't remember which tranny he used or any of the problems he encountered. His conversion looked pretty nice, but... Robert |
| Robert Rushing |
| Gerry- The J.A.P. engines were built in Czechoslovakia, believe it or not. Lawrence of Arabia loved them. The single cylinder engine was just one cylinder off of the V-Twin engine. Mountains of torque. |
| Steve S. |
| Gee, I said' "rice burner". Is that ok? I have never understood why people take offense at racial nicknames. When someone calls me a stubborn pig-headed German, a Kraut or a Hun, I feel a bit proud that they recognize the traits that are a part of my heritage. I read about the difference between the cars of Germany, Italy and England. When I got to the part about, "anal retentive teutonic engineering", I knew just what was meant and I had a good laugh. Let's face it, friendly jousting doesn't mean that I truly don't like Aussies just because they're all desended from prisoners, or Limeys simply because we came over and won WWII for them, or even the American wannabes the Canuks. In the words of a famous American, "Can't we all just get along". Lastly, I think it's sad that a discussion like this always ends-up with 20 - 30 comments, but the poor guys with tech questions like the suspension, manifold or fuel inquiries get 2 -4 responses. Whoops, did I say, "guys"? I meant people. Signed, annonymous ;) |
| Fred Horstmeyer |
| Being white, I don't understand why Blacks feel offended when people call them jiggaboos, or Arab-Americans don't like sandnigger, etc. - they're just nicknames. Maybe we should just take their word for it. Anyway, has anyone ever heard of dropping in a Datsun/Nissan straight six Z engine? I had a friend in college with a 240Z that went almost dangerously fast - part of that may have been his driving style. They strike me as sorta British in character being a torquey inline-6 that had SUs (or were they SU clones?) and all. I figure it would probably fit better in a 'C than a 'B, but the 'C folks' heads would probably explode if I mentioned it to them since there's so many more Bs around to mess with. |
| Wade Keene |
| One of the most poorly executed conversions I have seen on an MGB was the installation of a 260Z engine into a chrome bumper roadster. The engine was mounted vertically in the car, even though it was originally designed to slant to one side. In order to clear the valve cover, there was a central "hood scoop" cleverly fabricated out of square galvanized air ducting. Exhaust leaks were everywhere. The car's license plate said "MONGREL". As for the ongoing "name" discussion, I think that most of the folks here have missed one important point. Words like "Brit", "Yank", "Kraut", or "Bubba" denote national or regional origin, which is different from those words referring to race. To me, a sense of national or regional pride is healthy - look at what happened after 9/11 here in America. But it saddens me that race has become a matter of pride, also. In a perfect world, race would be irrelevant. We should all be (for example) "Americans" as opposed to "Asian Americans" or "African Americans". The idea of pride in one's race is a natural outgrowth of real or perceived racial oppression. And if that oppression were nonexistant, there would be no need for the concept of racial solidarity or pride. And that explains one of the most glaring double standards regarding racial pride. Here in the US, (and especially here in California) it has become politically correct to acknowledge and nurture pride in different races, that is, except if you are white. Can you imagine if I (a middle-aged white Baby Boomer) stood on the steps of the State Capitol and had the audacity to say that I was proud to be what I am? I would be booed, vilified, and probably make it onto the front page of the Sacramento Bee! No, race should not be something you have to be proud of, or ashamed of, or even notice - it should just be what you are. I am happily married to a third generation Japanese-American, but neither Karen nor myself wake up in the morning and think about our different races. In the few instances where we have been subject to prejudice or name-calling, our first reaction is "How can people be that stupid?" I guess my real prejudice is against stupid people, regardless of race. Unless we can do something about this rampant stupidity, Mankind will never fulfill its destiny to leave this planet and head out to the stars.... Cheers, Paul Kile |
| Paul Kile |
| I agree with Paul, the only people I discriminate against or am prejudice against are the stupid ones...haha! I don't care what race you are or where you're from, if you're a good honest person with integrity, I'm going to treat you with 100% respect. If you're a moron, I have no use for you.... Back to topic, The V8 really isn't all that much work for a conversion. I've spent 3 years accumulating knowledge and parts for mine and the people I've talked to have all been great! There is no "reinventing the wheel" with the V8, or even the V6 conversion for that fact. The Japanese made engines are bullet proof. No one can argue that. But their particular application may make for a very difficult conversion into a B laden with money, aggrivation, fabricating, and time. I would love to see a B with a honda accord V6 in it. I think it'd be the coolest thing since sliced bread. *But* I'd like to continue driving my car for the next 2 years instead of looking at it in the garage hoping that some day it'll be done and road worthy. Regards, Justin p.s. I know I said I've taken 3 years to accumulate parts and info, but that also included a FULL rebuild of the entire car, so take that time frame with a grain of salt.... |
| Justin |
| So Z engines are great engines - as long as they stay out of MGBs. I didn't imagine myself doing such a conversion but its interesting to know about. |
| Wade Keene |
| I got the joke several posts up, which seemed to be in reply to the thread's heading. Too bad so many (not all, thank heavens - so there is hope)got all caught up in the words that they missed that joke. Everybody gets so damned serious. I might be mentioning this in the wrong forum, but I would love to have a V-Twin Morgan trike. Nothing cooler than that. PS- I'm letting a lot of opportunities for cheap shots and philosophical meanderings go by the wayside on this post. Maybe only for the moment... |
| Marvin Deupree |
| One last thought on this racial stuff. Fred, I haven't yet met a Canadian who is a Wannabe Yank- all those I have met in the last 35 years are avowedly "DON'T-wannabe" Yanks And I have gotten so tired of hearing about people who call themselves Sino-Canadians, Indo -Canadians, South Asian Canadians, Japanese Canadians( yes, and French-Canadians!) that I make sure they know I am an Anglo-Austro- Canadian, just to ridicule their race consciouness and separateness; and I too would like a Morgan-the V8 model. The only worthwhile race is rapidly becoming the auto race. Ken R |
| Ken Rich |
| Ken, sorry. I was trying to be facetious. I was also hoping some of the brits would jump on the WWII thing. |
| Fred Horstmeyer |
| No apologies needed Fred- when you are an expatriate, as I am, you don't fit anywhere- and I know a good sense of humour when I hear it. Presently in BC, USA is not a reference that BC-ers feel particularly affectionate towards- through no fault of individual USA-ers. Much more importantly, I want to hear about early Quad Fours- I assume the Quad Four in my son's '88 Grand Am is an early one, and front wheel drive to boot. Maybe I should dredge the brains of the V8 people. Ken R |
| Ken Rich |
| Hi people I'm here reading and adding to this thread because I love my MG. I could not give a rat's @$% if any part of my car was originally made in Germany, Japan, England or anywhere else in the world. I'm from a European background and I hope that my kids don't grow up to be 'victims' - i.e 'he called me a *&^%'. I'm an Aussie and Aussies have this 'thing' with the British (Sport!)and we generally win that game called 'cricket'... Only thing is ... I own an MGB that was made in England and I'm proud of that! Australia has not produced a car with such worldwide success. Who cares about the cricket - the 'Poms' made the MGB! (My 2 cents:- I wouldn't put in a non-MG engine as a replacement - the car would no longer be an MG. It's got nothing to do with where the engine comes from, It's about keeping the marque original.) Cheers Mark |
| Mark |
| Check out the latest "STREET RODDER" magazine-May issue. They spotlight a company doing some conversion parts for the Quad 4 which turn them into a quasi Offy. It looks very cool and they show several rods using S10 5 speeds or C4 Ford automatics. This has got some very real possibilities for a high HP MGB! |
| Thomas Rynne |
| I'm with Mark, even if he is English--er Australian I mean.(same thing). Someone needs to make a fiberglass MGA so these guys with their v-8s, miata engines etc., etc. can put em somewhere. I have 2 questions: Would NASCAR racers circle to the left in Australia? Is cricket really considered a sport??? |
| Fred Horstmeyer |
| Hi Fred The answers to your questions are: 1/ If they are drunk. (was that a ' NASCAR's down the toilet' joke?..hee hee) 2/ No. (although I don't mind the one-day internationals...) Cheers |
| Mark |
| Mark, I remember reading somewhere that MGB's were shipped to Austalia as component kits and assembled there to circumvent some tax laws. So, Australia did, in a limited sort of way, produce the car? On a very different note: I noticed an old, RHD Pontiac in a Mad Max movie. Do you guys get many RHD American cars? Regards, Gary |
| Gary Wiggins |
| Gary I think you are right! - in fact MY 68G' is one of those Aussie assembly jobs (NO rust at all...) Here I was thinking the UK had it all.... :) Seriously, my G is a beauty as far as the build and lack of rust - as far as the RH drive Pontiacs, I'm not so sure. I know a few guys here that do some fancy quick changeovers so it would be difficult to tell if the Pontiacs here were originals or not. Cheers Mark p.s - MAD MAX was a great movie! |
| Mark |
| Those were called CKD (completely knocked down) cars, and many were trimmed locally in OZ. Details can be found in Clausager's "Original MGB". |
| Paul Konkle |
| Man, I'm always surprised when motor swap threads arise and no one mentions the Rotary. The Mazda 12A and 13B rotary motors are cheap and easy to come by, light and small, make good to awesome hp and torque figures, are extremely easy to adopt motor mounts for, and there is good aftermarket for the motors. Not to mention trannies and rearends for these are also cheap. I've personally seen two rotary sprites and at least one rotary MGB. If you are a lush for power they can be made to run single or twin turbos with over the counter parts. If you just want reliablility by a 12A and keep it stock, it will still have more ooomph than the B series. If your scrounging the junkyard for one look to Mazda RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, all generations of RX-7 and the venerable mazda rotary pickup. As for the "other" talk of this post. Some one said earlier that it would be great if there was no oppression/discrimination because then racial pride and identity wouldn't really matter. That may be true. But the fact is it does exist, and it exists in large amounts. Example, I go to UC Santa Cruz, probably one of the most liberal schools in the U.S. yet still the racial demographic of the school is no where near the racial demographic of the state. One thing I've learned form working and organizing with ethnic organizations on this campus is the majority of people of color in the U.S. are forced to deal with and think about race on a daily basis. Whether its applying for loans, dealing with police, being in a classroom where the majority of the students are white, watching people lock there car doors because they see a black man wearing baggy clothes, the list goes on and on. On the flip side I've learned that the majority of white people in the U.S. do not have to think about race on a daily basis. We live in a country where white people enjoy priveledge. When I go to Denny's I don't have to worry about being served. When I walk through an upper class neighborhood I don't have to worry about having the cops called on me. When I go to class people don't ask me if I speak English, or if English is my second language. People don't sexualize me and say I'm exotic, and they don't expect me to perform because they think I'm probably funny or can dance well. Yet these are all realities for people of color. As far as not being able to take pride in being white, I disagree. Here at Santa Cruz I am very openly proud of my whiteness, and I get no flak for it. The main reason for this is I also recognize that I have white priveledge, and I acknowledge the fact that I cannot fully understand the struggles of all people of color. By the way I guess I should mention that this does not stop at race but includes gender, sexuality and class issues as well. Anyway I know it kinda sucks for people who start posts like this when a political discussion emerges, but I for one think its pretty cool that we can all meet up online and talk about are cars and about other life issues in the same forum, and keep it relatively peaceful. Cheers Bill 69 B-GT |
| Bill Mertz |
| Just a quick word on engine swaps here. I'm a retired (retarded?) GM service manager, and an engine that would be very low on my list to have in any car would be a quad-four. Susceptible to blown head gaskets, and very specialized tools needed to effect the repair. On the other hand, the little 2.9-3.4 V6's are long lived, and there are lots of parts available for them, the five speed Camaro boxes are slick to use. Cheers |
| Doug NollNNo |
| Bill: Over the last couple of years Grassroots Motorsports ran a series of articles concerning the transplanting of a Mazda rotary into a Spitfire. It was no simple or cheap project, at least not the way they did it. But it was interesting. Well, the moment referred to above has ended. Let me get up on my soapbox. Oppression/discrimination exists in part because there are people who profit from it's perpetuation. They could be Klansmen or they could be "Preachers" but they all have a vested interest in racial unrest. If our society was colorblind these jokers would all have to get real jobs. Or at least find a hobby, like playing with old English cars. With all due respect, and I mean that because it is not my intention to be nasty in any way although I will probably come across as such, you sound apologetic about being white despite being "openly proud" of your whiteness. It is no surprise to me that you are entrenched in a liberal bastion, and it's effect is obvious. Your comment on campus demographics reeks of quotas. Your guilt-ridden comments about "white privilege" and the "struggles of all people of color" and "gender, sexuality, and class issues" prove that. The left wing thrives on dividing the population: black vs. white, rich vs. poor, young vs. old, one hyphenated-American vs. another. For the hard-core it is a tool to undermine the country, for the opportunists it is a tool to obtain/maintain power. To be involved with "organizing ethnic organizations" is to play right into their hands and join their fifth column, consciously or not. I contend that it is adding to the problem rather than helping to solve it, regardless of your intention. Try organizing a "white awareness" conference and see where that gets you. Maybe it is a paranoid geography thing but in my neck of the woods, everybody always locks their car when parking in a public place whether or not there are "persons of color" (what a curiously twisted term that politically correct bromide is, huh?) lurking about the area, dressed like gangstas. It doesn't mean that they are racists, they just don't want their car or it's contents stolen. People who dress like criminals or supposed criminals are likely to be thought of as such, no surprise there. If the suspects are offended by this perception maybe they ought to reconsider their fashion statement. And I don't know if it sucks that questions about engine transplants generate philosophical (I say philosophical, not political) discussion. It does make it more like real life. Good sport. I kinda like it. Later. PS-Where you find 4 WASPS you'll likely find a fifth. A fifth of scotch. (Just wanted to give a little ribbing to my homies.) |
| Marvin Deupree |
| Has anyone done a Nissan 2.4 conversion? This motor from a 240sx or truck is looks like it would fit right in. The intake is on the right and exhaust on the left. It makes a claimed 155 horsepower. It has a hydraulic clutch. Somebody tell me this is bolt-in swap! |
| Gary Wiggins |
| Marvin, I couldn't have said it better, here here. The University of Georgia gives extra credit for being black! That is state sponsored racism. I thought the civil rights amendment in 1964 made us all equal. All the bleeding heart liberals in Berkley should be required to live in the taxpayer sponsored housing projects of Atlanta! Gary |
| Gary Wiggins |
| Marvin, I saw the GRM buildup, the reason it was expensive is they built a full on light weight tube frame autocrosser sparing no expense. They through a really hot motor in that thing. Did you see the Rotary MGB they featured in there, it was silver with a chopped down windscreen. Anyhow I assure you the swap can be done on the cheap. Cheaper than a V8 swap. Ok now for the rant, hang Marvin, this is a bit long, but like you said this is with all due respect and no harm intended, I can respect our differences, and still know that we are you united by the common bond of the MGB. So Marvin I can assure you that I do not feel guilty about being white, but am in fact proud and educated about my heritage. I have taken time to research and take courses on labor history of Irish, German and Czech immigrants as well as doing an oral history of my Grandfather who immigrated from Germany. I take a lot of pride in who I am and where I come from. As far as trying to organize a white awareness conference and seeing where that gets me, well actually we have mulitple white racial identity classes being offered at my school. They have been offered for the last two years, and they are essentially white awareness courses. They have been highly successful and productive. There is also a group on campus that focuses on issues of white awareness. However central to the discussion of Whiteness in America (it is important to denote that this discussion is in the context of the U.S.) is white priveledge. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not it does exist. I live it every day and see its affects. This is not to say that there are no white people who are oppressed, or there are no people of color who are priveledged, but its simply recognizing that the societal structure of the U.S. is set up to benefit the white male. Organizing with ethnic orgs on campus is extremely important. It has been all but devisive. I have been the part of several major coalitions that have hosted events, brought "at risk youth" to the UCSC campus to show them that college is a possibility and that unity can exist between all races, genders and sexualities. We have all gotten to know eachother, shared our histories and helped each other to work on problems and achieve tasks for both all the individual orgs in the coalition and the coalition itself. And the coalition isn't just made of ethnic orgs, it is made of anyone who think progressively and sees the benefit of these types of coalitions. Also I agree that the term people of color is subject to analysis, however I use it because ethnic communities have adopted/claimed this term and prefer it used in the context of discussions on racial issues, just as I prefer to be called Bill on this board. As far as the locking the doors goes, I meant when they drive by, not when parked. But that being said, I don't necessarily think its racist that when people see someone they lock their doors, but I do think it points to a greater societal flaw. Why do people lock their doors? Because they know that young black men dressed a certain way have greater chance of being criminals then old well dressed Korean American business men. Why are black males criminalized? Why are they over represented in the prison industrial complex? If you think they are actually committing the crimes and therefore justly put in prison, then what are the societal factors causing them to commit crimes? Is it poverty or drugs? And if it is why are they poor and on drugs? Is it because they are inherrintly lazy and prone to drug use, because that is the kind of racist thinking that many many years ago caused much of the institutional racism that we have today. As far as my demographic comment reeking of quotas. Thats a classic conservative response to the underrepresentation of people of color in institutions of higher education (Its also a bit ironic as I think the Bush cabinet is basically a quota cabinet). We are not striving for quotas, we are striving to get rid of biased testing in the public schools and in entrance exams. We are struggling to end "outcome based" education policies that cut funding from schools who have low funds to begin with, and then lose more funds because their kids cannot achieve the highest scores on standardized test because their teachers are underpaid. And the reason for the low funding to begin with is that public school funding is based directly on property tax, so if you live in a poor neighbor hood, the public school in your district is going to have significantly less funds than a public school in a wealthier neighborhood. And then that poor school will have its funding cut when test minimums can't be met. We are also struggling for retention programs in the University System. Right now the only retention programs are run by volunteer students. The drop out rate in the UC system is incredibly disproportionate for Students of Color. Most people don't ask why, they just assume they weren't ready for college. Well I went out and asked why, and I found out it is because students feel alienated on college campuses. They are affraid when the number of hate crimes on the UC campus is higher than it is in towns. Seeing signs with derrogitory terms posted on dorm walls isn't exactly an environment condussive to learning. And getting the Chancellor to even take notice of this is extremely difficult because she believes if the hate crime was not reported to police then it was not committed at all. Well thats great except that the SC police force is responsible for some of the hate crimes. If our society was color blind...... The big if, but the fact is it isn't. And to be honest it can never be color blind because every ethnicity has a history rooted in pain and glory that needs to be recognized. I want to live in a world where we can celebrate are differences and understand those difference and use them to better the world. I mean what good would it be if everyone drove the same car, or even if all MGB owners had the same color MGB. Man that would suck. As for Gary, the civil rights ammendment is just a piece of paper. Have you any idea how many lynchings occured after that passed. Dr. Wen Ho Lee was shackled in a maximum security prison for over a year with only 1 our of excercise a day, on charges that the U.S. government had no proof to back up. Not only is that inequality, but that violates "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process". I mean just in months since sept. 11th, several Indian and even latino Americans were attacked and even killed because people thought they were middle eastern, and placed blame on middle eastern people for the attacks. As for your comment on Berkeley. Despite popular belief UC Berkeley's student government is controlled by conservatives. Also try and think why most of the students at Berkeley haven't grown up in housing projects, it just returns to the cycle of problems that exist with the education system. Man what a rant that was, hopefully none were to offended as it was meant to be a friendly retort to Marvin. Oh and Marvin, I really believe this is political (also a little philisophical) after all we are talking about government, educational systems, prison, race and ethnicity, and thats politics. This will be my last post on the subject, the rest will go via email for me I think. Sorry for using all the space cheers Bill |
| Bill Mertz |
| How about letting this thread die a quick death? |
| Fred Horstmeyer |
| Just for fun, I thought I'd try to address the original question. The original poster (evidently from California) asked a pretty straightforward question, if all of the variables are considered. There are basically two reasons for wanting to make this conversion: 1. Power 2. Reliability. OK, three reasons...to say you've done it. Assuming the two former cases, however, the original poster is either unhappy with his current setup (maybe it's not running) OR someone has convinced him that our engines are unreliable. Let me throw out a disclaimer that someone probably should've considered up front...since the poster is from CA such a change cannot be made on a CA car for '74 and later model years...you'd never pass the visual inspection at emissions time. OK, so let's assume we're dealing with a '73 or earlier (BTW, you'll be able to changeout engines for your '74 starting next year, '75 the year after that, and so on...). This would mean that the poster is faced with the possibility of either performing some kind of engine swap OR going with a well-built, well-tuned 1800 B-series. Unless, such a swap is being performed for reasons such as rendering the car a "conversation piece", there are plenty of things you can do to bring the B-series up to power levels that keep up with and pass many newer cars. I'm going to assume that you have access to a buildable B-series with this posting. Mine has been built such that it produces very good power for the street, with no cutting or welding required. These are very simple engines and you'll find it MUCH easier to nicely build up a quick, yet "streetable" B-series engine, than make a swap that causes you to continually chase problems that have yet to be discovered (by anyone). You know, I have one of the Nissan 2.4 liter, 16 valve, twin cam beasties ("rated" at 155 HP) in one of my cars, a Nissan Altima. It's quick and is very nice to manage in traffic (nice engine in a relatively light car...the Japanese have developed a very nice, reliable product [who knows, maybe it was built in a U.S. factory]). However, it still doesn't have the same "torquey" feel I get with my somewhat beefed up B-series (let's see, I now run twin HIF4s with some breathing mods, a custom airbox with large K&N filter, an intake manifold worked to provide better flow, a Peco header that's correctly fitted with a very open exhaust, Mike Brown's excellent cylinder head work, a rebuilt bottom end with HC pistons, an earlier spec [but otherwise relatively standard, as I like low-end torque] cam with double row timing chain, and an HC-compatible distributor. Unless you're going to have this work performed for free (e.g., it's someone's school auto shop project or something to that effect), I honestly believe you'll be happier with the original engine type. When built to a high standard, using either high performance or earlier specification components (as appropriate to your driving needs), the MGB is a very well-balanced, nice handling, fun car. BTW, if yours is a later model, then you can't make some of these changes and register it in CA either ("visual" equipment check at emissions time and all). But if you DO have the lattitude, then you'll want to consider running it as nature intended...perhaps with some really nice mods as I've described. There are several references to this on this BBS as well as several books on the topic. I've assembled everything I've described in my own garage, with the expert help of the aforementioned specialist. I would personally consider an engine swap (particularly to an unknown quantity) an exceedingly daunting task. So, if you're still following this, please consider working with the original or similar replacement. Have fun, Barry |
| Barry Kindig |
| One more comment please about California engine swaps and emission tests on 1973 and earlier cars. It is my understanding from studying the emission rules, that even though you might not need to go thru a formal emissions test or visual inspection, your car still is legally obliged to be a non-polluter. If you change it, you might want to make sure you are in compliance. If Governor Gray Davis ever gets his act together so the state is no longer writing with a red pencil, the promised drive-by emission machines may show up all over the state. Besides that, nobody is ever sure what the idiots on the California Air Resources Board is gonna call for next. Such be bureaucrats. And even in the legislature, there are now calls to eliminate the 30-yr-old exemption. Oops, somebody kicked my soapbox out. Cheers |
| Doug Noll |
| Barry, I believe you can still do the swap even if your car is a '74 and up in California. Here's the catch. The motor you transplant in has to be the same age or newer than the motor that was in the car. It also has to have all the OEM smog equipment on it. Once you do the swap you have to go to the "smog ref" to get your car properly certified, after that your as good as gold. As well as being an MG enthusiast I'm also a jeeper (86 CJ-7) and several of my 4x4 buddies have done swaps on mid 80's trucks, and they are all CA smog compliant. Interestingly most of them use the chevy 4.3 V6 with injection. Any how it can be done, it just takes time. Bill |
| Bill Mertz |
| Thank you Doug, the retired GM man. If you say never a Quad Four, then I will make a definite No out of maybe Yes/No to my son, who has offered me his low milage engine- rebuilt after catastrophic gasket failure. I really like the standard engine- simple and proven. But, the GM V-/5 speed has been known to bring a gleam to my eye. . . Ken R |
| Ken Rich |
This thread was discussed between 08/04/2002 and 17/04/2002
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