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MG MGB Technical - The Abingdon Pillow

I am thinking about buying a 1969 MGB or C roadster, in the United States, to take with me to Europe when I leave.

If I were to later remove the Abingdon Pillow and replace it with a steel dash panel would this affect the 'originality' of the car and therefor perhaps it's later value and eligablity for classic car status?

Does this matter?

I know that Norway, for example, has very strict rules about what is a classic car, and what isn't. An example would be the original factory V8's and the conversion V8's.

Does anybody have any thoughts or experience regarding this subject?
I'd love to hear from you.

Angus.
AJ Munro

It will be no easy job to remove the padded dash and replace it with an earlier one. Much work has to be done. The top panel behind has to be replaced with a suitable one. instruments and wireing harnes is different, also. More trouble than it is worth. more info at http://www.theautoist.com/ This gent is in the process of doing just what you seek to do.
gerry masterman

Another alternative would be to find a car over there, as they never got the pillow dash.
Ken Lessig

A third alternative is to replace the "pillow" dash with a full wooden assembly. Mike Satur, whom advertises on this site, has a wood dash replacement avail. for the treatment. Much easier than cutting in and welding the necessary pieces to install steel dash.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

Luis
Luis

The dash from the 1972-1976 B is virtually a one for one swap with the "pillow" In place of the "pillow" is a glove compartment. All guages and switches remain the same and in the same position.
Robert Dougherty

AJ:

I just re-read your post and realized I didn't answer you real question.

Yes, changing the dash would be considered messing with the originality of the car. Perhaps even more so since the changing of the dash means welding and permanent changes. (car would not be able to go back to what would be original). In the US I don't think this would hurt its classification of a classic car since even an AMC Pacer (as seen by mine own eyes at a classic car show this weekend) is considered a classic, but it most likely would hurt its overall value as a non-original example. I think even more so in Europe.

Cheers,

Luis
Luis

Ken, if you are sure about that, you have just answered a long-standing query of mine. However, i guess that these dashes wouls use different sized instruments. I have long thought, if Europe did not get the pillow, maybe there was a steel LHD dash, similar to the pre 1968 dash, but with pillow dash instruments, and what an easy swap that would be.
Ken R
Ken Rich

AJ-
Hey. I've no energy to argue about philosophy or culture at this time. Plus that thread seems to have been unravelled by forces beyond our immediate control.
Many years ago (about 25) I transplanted the dash from a '64 B into a '68 shell. I saber-sawed the sheet metal dash top off the '64 (along the footprint of the windshield) and pop-riveted it to the existing sheetmetal dash. As I recall, the defroster vents lined up, as did the corners; the curvature of the flange to which the dashboard attached differed, but the earlier one was further rearward, so there was no real damage to the existing ('68) condition, save a couple of rivet holes. I did not remove the flange to which the '68 dash bolted, so if one was so inclined he could reattach the original he could do so without much effort. The early dash bolted right up. I am not certain, but I believe I did replace the dashboard wiring harness with an earier one. I should mention that I had all of the parts necessary for this conversion and that I was not concerned about "originality". As to whether or not this type of modification would or would not affect the car's "classic" status in any kind of legal sense, I think you would have to check with the controlling governmental authorities. In terms of re-selling the car it would certainly be seen as blasphemy by a purist but since the process could be easily reversed (if you save the old parts) it is probably not as bad as a non-original paint color would be.
Later
Marvin Deupree

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your responses. These have, in fact, confirmed my own thoughts and reservations on the matter.

Gerry, Luis and Marvin (good to hear from you again Marvin) have convinved me that it is too much work and would spoil the original vehicle.

Ken L. also reminds me of the sense of buying one on Europe, perhaps England, and converting it to LHD. This would have the advantage of having the larger instruments available, including the difficult to get high speed speedometer. The snag is, European cars are often sick with the dreaded tin worm. I suppose I have got a little carried away with the European dream of finding a rust free California car...owned from new by a little old lady...

Ken R. Just a little information that may be of interest. According to Anders Clausager. p43, "The US-type facia was found on cars for Sweden and Germany from the start of the 1970 model year...as well as on later cars for Norway."

Anyway, thank you all again for sharing your knowledge and opinions which were all very much appreciated.

Happy MG motoring to you all.

Now, where is that little old lady....
AJ Munro

Go to the following and look at the MG pics. I am going to do what this gentleman did except paint the dash with the black crinkle and fabricate a glove box that folds down from underneath the passenger side. The MG Gods even bequethed me with a crappy pillow dash to strip so I could save the original dash under my bed on a silk pillow for later re-conversion back to original.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/comart45/lst?.dir=/Cummins+Cars+One&.src=ph&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/comart45/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=ph%26.view=t&.view=t
Tom Lang

PS, I could not get the hotlink to work but if you copy and paste into your browser it will take you there....
Tom Lang

AJ-
Upon reflection, there was one other item I forgot to mention. You may not care at this point, but in the interest of thoroughness, here it is: There is a cross brace, of tubing 3/4 or 1 inch square, under the dash to which the steering column secures. This required modification because the steering columns of the pre-'68's differ from the later ones. (I believe the later ones are collapsable and the earlier ones are the rigid chest skewers.) In any event, the mounting details are different and to accomodate this I cut out corresponding sections of the cross braces and welded the older one into the newer body shell. If memory serves, one needs to do this because the column surround behind the steering wheel is larger on the later cars and conflicts with the early dash.
This change is of course less easily reversed than the others I mentioned.
Later
Marvin Deupree

Thanks AJ. That suggests that the early LHD steel dash and early instruments were used until that date. A similar arrangement occurred in UK with the RHD dashes about the same time.
Ken R
Ken Rich

Thank you Marvin,

What you say about the colapsible steering column introduced in 1969 is also my understanding and the subsequent work involved with a modification becomes all too much for me.

I took contact with a company in Britain that quoted about $1500 (1000 pounds) for the work.

It just gets out of proportion to the value of the finished vehicle. I think that I will go with ken Lessig's idea of finding one 'over there'. That way I save about $2300 in transport costs as well.

Pity though...now there is a little old lady somewhere stuck with an MGC....

Nice talking with you all, no doubt we will talk again. I hope so.

Angus
AJ Munro

Here's a good conversion of a '71 dash: http://www.foresight.cc/blackwoodlabs/Projects/MG/MG_Main.htm It's the bottom picture.
J

Wow.
Not too concerned with originality. Probably had to modify the dash to fit the graphic equalizer....
MMD
MMD

Uh, yes I'd say so since it had the "pillow" to start with. This is a '71 dash with '68 guages and glove box, and extra cutouts for other things too, why waste the real estate? The glove box liner is from a ~'80s era small GM of some sort I think (plastic) and the dash is covered in leather. One of the nicer features of the car.
Jim
Jim Blackwood

Damn Jim. I wonder if a Porsche will notice that blower if you pull alongside? Can't help but grin. Nice dash.

Luis
Luis with his saliva dripping

This thread was discussed between 04/03/2002 and 08/03/2002

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